±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 304
Total: 304
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Downloads
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Home
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: News Archive
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Downloads
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Member Screenshots
109: Statistics
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: News
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Your Account
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Your Account
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Photo Gallery
206: Statistics
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Home
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Downloads
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Downloads
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Photo Gallery
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Photo Gallery
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3.7in AP Shot
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:23 am
Post subject: 3.7in AP Shot

Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns










Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Zooming in on the 'loading' image reveals a projectile with a flat nose - its more than likely a proof round used to test the gun after manufacture.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand

I assume the 17pdr was considered adequate. I also read recently that the 32pdr At gun that was being developed at the end of the war was based on the 3.7" but the towed version of that gun was a monster to move around. I think in the 32 pdr form it was used in the Tortoise (The British vehicle similar to the T28)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

According to the regimental history of the 2nd Cdn HAA Regt. their 3.7in AA guns were fitted with sights to engage ground targets both by direct and indirect fire. Besides the AA role their training also involved anti-tank drills and artillery shoots.

Looking at the photo closer it dose look like the round is a Flathead. Since these are also solid shot they would be painted black like the AP Shot.



Below are diagrams of the three main types of ammo for the 3.7in AA Guns. First the 3.7in AP Shot Mk 3T, the 3.7in HE Shell and the 3.7in Shrapnel shell.





Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

- A2_Prius
Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.


Several books mention that they were used against tanks during the fall of Tobruk - the regiment responsible for the air defence of the harbour held off rommels panzers for several hours until they ran out of ammunition. The ammunition in question was unfuzed HE (normal HE round with transit plug fitted in place of fuze) apparently...

The unit in question IIRC was 68 HAA Regt RA and I think the Peter Cochrane book mentions it.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

- bsmart
No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand.


There were different models of the 3.7in AA gun going up to the Mark 6. There were both static and mobile types. It sounds like the guns sighted along the Suez Canal may have been static types. The 2Cdn.HAA Regimental states that “…in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations.�

In NWE the 3.7in AA guns were most often used in the field artillery role, especially for counter battery and counter mortar shoots. I have heard one report that the British had used their 3.7in AA guns to snipe at German tanks across the Rhine River in 1945.

Note that 3.7in AA guns were also manufactured in Canada and Australia during the war.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke's memoirs include several mentions of visits to demonstrations of 3.7" guns in the anti-tank role. If I remember correctly, the demonstrations mainly took place prior to the introduction of the 17pdr.

Perhaps while the anti-tank potential of the 3.7" gun was evident, the introduction of the 17pdr eliminated the operational requirement for the 3.7" gun to be used against ground targets.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

The introduction of the proximity fuze also made them effect against dug-in infantry and they were used in this role in NWE and Burma.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="J.McGillivray"]Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 1942 the Canadian Army Technical Development Board commisioned a one-off 3.7 inch SP on a Ram chassis. The gun used was a Mk.II 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun, on a Mk.III mounting (less its wheels, predictor and other parts below the roller race) made by General Electric in Peterborough Ont. Aside from the standard AA sights it had both a No.9 dial sight for indirect fire and a modified No.33 anti-tank sight.
In trials in the UK the Ram 3.7 inch SP was not terribly effective in either an AA or in-direct fire role, but tests carried out on 23 March, 1943 at the Combined Operations School in Poole, showed it performed very well in a direct fire role.

Paper studies were then carried out to look at the feasibility of mounting either a 17-pounder or a 3.7 inch AA gun on the Ram Sexton chassis. The 3.7 inch was deemed to offer marginally (5mm) superior armour penetration out to 1,000 yards, and significantly better beyond that range. A paper study was also done for a 3.7 inch as an assault gun mounted on an M4 chassis, for use against beach fortifications. Neither of these studies got beyond the drawing board but do show that the 3.7 inch AA gun was seen as potentially ahighly effective direct fire weapon.
For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="Roger_Lucy"]
- J.McGillivray

For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.


I'm waiting for the film version Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I'm waiting for the film version ;-)

8)[/quote]
I wish! There are lots of references to films being taken of various equipment trials, but all that seems to have survived are a few stills- such as this one of the Ram 3.7 inch SP wading ashore during the 23 March 1943 trials at Poole.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

In this article in US Field Artillery Magazine from Jan. 1943 there are references to the British 3.7in AA gun being used in the anti-tank role like the German 8.8cm Flak gun.
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA..._25_27.pdf
Source
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA...chives.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
warddw
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I have a nice example of the 3.7" AP Ammunition in my collection...let me know if you want a picture posted...
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

It would be nice to see a photo of the 3.7in AP shot.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum