±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 678
Total: 678
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Your Account
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: CPGlang
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Member Screenshots
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Your Account
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Your Account
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Statistics
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Your Account
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: CPGlang
94: Your Account
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Statistics
101: Community Forums
102: Your Account
103: News
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Downloads
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Your Account
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Photo Gallery
159: Home
160: Downloads
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Member Screenshots
172: Downloads
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Your Account
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Statistics
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Member Screenshots
221: Home
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Member Screenshots
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Home
236: News Archive
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: News
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: CPGlang
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Member Screenshots
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: CPGlang
257: Member Screenshots
258: Downloads
259: Photo Gallery
260: Member Screenshots
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Your Account
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: CPGlang
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Your Account
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Your Account
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Member Screenshots
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Downloads
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Home
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Your Account
346: Home
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Photo Gallery
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: News
359: Downloads
360: Photo Gallery
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Photo Gallery
367: Home
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Downloads
373: Photo Gallery
374: Home
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Photo Gallery
384: Member Screenshots
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: CPGlang
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Photo Gallery
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Home
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Downloads
423: Photo Gallery
424: Member Screenshots
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: CPGlang
450: Photo Gallery
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: CPGlang
459: Community Forums
460: CPGlang
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Home
467: Member Screenshots
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Home
475: News Archive
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Downloads
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Home
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Downloads
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Home
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: Home
505: Photo Gallery
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Statistics
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Your Account
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Member Screenshots
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Your Account
527: Community Forums
528: Member Screenshots
529: Home
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Your Account
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Home
547: CPGlang
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Downloads
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Downloads
562: Community Forums
563: Home
564: Downloads
565: News
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: News Archive
570: CPGlang
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Downloads
584: News
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: CPGlang
591: Community Forums
592: Member Screenshots
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Member Screenshots
596: Member Screenshots
597: Downloads
598: Community Forums
599: Member Screenshots
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Downloads
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: News Archive
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Downloads
620: Search
621: Home
622: Community Forums
623: Downloads
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Photo Gallery
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Downloads
636: Home
637: Downloads
638: Home
639: Community Forums
640: CPGlang
641: CPGlang
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Statistics
651: Community Forums
652: Home
653: Home
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Home
659: Home
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Photo Gallery
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Member Screenshots
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Downloads
677: Community Forums
678: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:38 pm
Post subject: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

The following was seen at Schaarsbergen (NLD) in the Arnhem War Museum '40 - '45, Kemperbergerweg 780 (N 52 01.620 E 005 52.352). The guns are in a bad state but at least under a roof. The museum knows it, but don't have funds/specialists to restore/preserve the guns.

I'am absolutely no expert on artillery pieces but (as Massimo said about the Krupp guns) I'am starting to get interested in these old PAK's (and others)

So who can help ID these guns??

Here they come;


Type?


PAK40???


Type?


Type?
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

I am not an artillery guru, but I'll try my best.

First and last are easy. Last is a 7.5 cm Pak 40, First is an Oerlikon 20 mm, can't say the exact model, there were just too many.

Second and third require to go back to the thirties, when Rheinmetall designed a 3.7 cm anti-tank gun, it was state of the art, got some good export sales and was used by the German Army as 3.7 cm Pak 36. Rheinmetall sold the design to Soviet Union, were it was produced as 37 mm first, then enlarged to 45 mm. The soviets even build a 76 mm infantry gun on the same carriage. Usually you can telly a soviet 37 mm from a german gun due to the spoked wheels used by the soviets, but it may be tricky, sometimes even 37 vs 45 mm is difficult to recognize on a picture. See Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._%281-K%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...%2853-K%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...%28M-42%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._gun_M1943

Now, back to our shots, the second looks like a 37 mm to me (or a 45 mm?), but the wheels looks unusual to me. Either it's a kind of wheel I haven't seen before on a soviet gun (again, I am not an expert), or they put a pair of Oerlikon wheels on it.

Third gun is a soviet 76 mm regimental gun for sure.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

BTW There is at least another soviet light AT gun in NLD:
www.com-central.net/in...8&start=15

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
About the Russian Gun with the strange wheels.
The person in the museum who is supposed to be the weapons expert , is an acquaintance of me.
He told me last week that the gun is 4,2 cm ,but maybe I didn't hear it well and he meant maybe 4,5 cm.
About the wheels. They indeed don't belong to the gun ,but the original spoked wheels are standing against the wall at the back of the gun. ( not noticible on the pic )

Walter
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
The third gun is a German Infanterie Geschütz 7,5 cm
That acquaintance showed me the papersfor registration.
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Thanks a lot Walter! I was off-track thinking about soviet guns. They were germans, and very rare models. That's explain the wheels. Shame on me Crying or Very sad

So the anti-tank (second shot) is a rare 4.2 cm Pak 41. A conical gun, I've never seen one myself. See here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.2_cm_Pak_41

The infantry gun is another rare one, an 7.5 cm Infanteriegeschütz 37. I forgot it has a peculiar muzzle brake! See:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...C3%BCtz_37

Folks, those two pieces are *very* exciting. Please try to take a full walkaround set of pictures on both of them whenever the opportunity arise. I would love to get a few dozens shots of both.

Many thanks to both Lesley and Walter

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo
Maybe some misunderstanding in the second gun ( with strange wheels )
The 4,2 cm is correct allthough is's not German but Russian
Is that possible or is it indeed 4,5 cm instead ?
I shall take some more pics for you this week.
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Some additional info on the third gun ( the 7,5 cm Infantery Geschütz ).
The right leg is replica and the barrel is not the original one.The original that was on it when they got the gun was blown up,and therefore replaced by another barrel.
It is also missing the breech.
Inside the museum is another ( blown up ) barrel with the muzzlebreak on it .
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

- Walter
Massimo
Maybe some misunderstanding in the second gun ( with strange wheels )
The 4,2 cm is correct allthough is's not German but Russian
Is that possible or is it indeed 4,5 cm instead ?


If it's soviet it's 45 mm. A german 4,2 cm would be almost too good to be true Crying or Very sad
Check Wikipedia's links I posted to see the soviet gun


- Walter
I shall take some more pics for you this week.


Thanks. No need to hurry up, I will be on holyday for the first half of august and may not be online during that period

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

It would not supprise me if it turns out to be an German 42mm PaK

Because the 7,5 cm Infantery Geschütz they have is the still only one I know still existing (and the barrel of another one lying inside the building, Walter know's more Wink )
I have been trying to find some info about it, exisiting or WW2 reference, however there is hardly anything thing that can be found
We have seen this one before here:
www.com-central.net/in...ic&t=12377

Almost forgot, the wheels are from an German halftrack
Because they are rather small, I think an SdKfz 11

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:10 am
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Massimo,

because of your remark about the special/rare guns, I uploaded the picture's I have to my photobucket album

s1015.photobucket.com/...re%20guns/

uploaded picture's of:
- 75mm infanterie geschutz 37 (Schaarsbergen)
- 45 mm anti-tank gun M1937 (53-K)(Overloon)

Warning: all picture's are original size, so size range from 800kb to 3Mb

They are marked, if some one would like to have an "clean" copy let me know Cool

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

I got some additional pics of the 7,5 cm Infanterie Geschütz.
They are not very good but you can see how the gun looks from the back.

Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

And some additional pics of the Soviet 45 mm Gun
[img]

And the wheels what originaly belonged to this gun
www.mijnalbum.nl/Grote....jpg[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Guns at Schaarsbergen (NLD)

Thanks Walter, those wheels match the 45 mm

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum