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Preserved Tanks in Brazil
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
The M3 Stuart pic might have been a year or two before. It took me three tries to get a "sanctioned" tour of the whole post with the CO. Gate guards and even lieutenants don't want to take a chance of "doing something wrong" where a foreign national is involved. Strings were pulled locally and I got the $2 tour.

Some of the M3 pics were taken "at a distance" in the previous years (meaning covertly through the car window). When first approached, the guards didn't even want me taking pics of the M3 and M41, which are actually outside of the post gate. OPSEC, you know. Laughing


We tend to poo poo security as we focus on the vehicles. But many countries have long-running disputes with their neighbours. Foreign nationals prowling an active duty military base usually are suspected of espionage. Why else would someone be wandering around a base when the beaches have better scenery?
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Remember that a group of English plane spotters got arrested in Greece, not so long ago, taking pictures & noting tail numbers of their clapped-out F16s!
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

We tend to poo poo security as we focus on the vehicles. But many countries have long-running disputes with their neighbours. Foreign nationals prowling an active duty military base usually are suspected of espionage. Why else would someone be wandering around a base when the beaches have better scenery?


Oh, I know. I had the unfair advantage of being accompanied by my wife at that time, who was a native of Mafra and Curitiba. She tried to 'splain it to 'em on two different visits but relations between the Brazilian gov't and mine are not the best.

A third trip produced results when she enlisted the aid of a retired officer the family knew.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
The M3 Stuart pic might have been a year or two before. It took me three tries to get a "sanctioned" tour of the whole post with the CO. Gate guards and even lieutenants don't want to take a chance of "doing something wrong" where a foreign national is involved. Strings were pulled locally and I got the $2 tour.

Some of the M3 pics were taken "at a distance" in the previous years (meaning covertly through the car window). When first approached, the guards didn't even want me taking pics of the M3 and M41, which are actually outside of the post gate. OPSEC, you know. :lol:

Somewhere here on C-C I think there's a whole thread on my visit there, you can probably search for it. I withheld some pics then at the CO's request because he was kinda' embarrassed about the state of some areas of the motor pool. I think it's been upgraded by now, and I know he was promoted and moved on up.

Rio Negro is right on the river (guess which one :lol: ) at the edge of the state of Parana. Immediately across the river is Mafra in the state of Santa Catarina. Colloquially, it is often called "Rio Mafra" because the two towns are essentially one, separated by a couple of bridges across a hundred meter span of river.

...


Thanks Doug, photo's added and dates amended:

Location 37700: 5º Regimento de Carros de Combate, Vila Militar, Rio Negro

M3A1%20Stuart,%20M41C Now%20for%20some%20more: Location%2037540:%20Museu%20Eduardo%20André%20Matarazzo,%20Bebedouro,%20São%20Paulo FT-17 Location%2037560:%20Postos%20RodoServ%20Sorriso,%20Pardinho,%20São%20Paulo M41C Location%2037600:%20Praça%20Presidente%20Antônio%20Carlos,%20Juiz%20de%20Fora,%20Minas%20Gerais [img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/3157247376-b69450cdb8_M3_Juiz_LMCiuffo_c.jpg[/img] M3A3 Location%2037840:%201º%20Regimento%20de%20Carros%20de%20Combate,%20Santa%20Maria,%20Rio%20Grande%20do%20Sul [img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/American/1304-M4%20%28Late%20Production%29%20Sherman/1VoltaVovo_M4_1RCC_YT_Bianosoares_c.jpg[/img]

M4


Location 37850: Carlos Pereira Collection, Panambi, Rio Grande do Sul

M4

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:42 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
[q
[img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/3157247376-b69450cdb8_M3_Juiz_LMCiuffo_c.jpg[/img] M3A3
Those%20\"light%20tube\"%20things%20are%20a%20lot%20more%20appealing%20at%20night%20and%20lit%20than%20in%20the%20daylight...%20:roll:%20
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:57 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
Those "light tube" things are a lot more appealing at night and lit than in the daylight... :roll:

Agreed%20-%20but%20it's%20still%20a%20good%20picture%20so%20I've%20added%20it%20to%20the%20tank's%20page.
%20%20-%20Massimo_Foti
%20%20
I%20am%20still%20not%20100%%20about%20the%20info%20I%20have%20on%20brazilian%20L3%20tanks.%20I%20have%20the%20strong%20feeling%20there%20could%20be%20more,%20not%20listed%20in%20the%20PDF.%20 Massimo
I%20think%20I've%20found%20another%20one: Location%2037250:%2015º%20Regimento%20de%20Cavalaria%20Mecanizado-Escola,%20Vila%20Militar,%20Rio%20de%20Janeiro

M41C, 2xL3

- I followed up the L3/35 in your Register and it certainly looks to me like the one I found in StreetView sitting outside is a different one to the one you list. Just click on the StreetView links if you want a closer link.

BTW, if anyone is tracking M3s and M8s, note the ones on display here.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum


Agreed - but it's still a good picture so I've added it to the tank's page.


That's fine.


BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles. It was a virtual stash that would be the envy of any Stuart collector, though few, if any, were in "restored" condition. IIRC, there were legal issues about anyone trying to purchase or return any to the U.S. I've seen a couple of pics of this collection and a wild guess from memory was that he owned anywhere from 10-20 vehicles.
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles. It was a virtual stash that would be the envy of any Stuart collector, though few, if any, were in "restored" condition. IIRC, there were legal issues about anyone trying to purchase or return any to the U.S. I've seen a couple of pics of this collection and a wild guess from memory was that he owned anywhere from 10-20 vehicles.


I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716

Massimo
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

- Massimo_Foti
I am still not 100% about the info I have on brazilian L3 tanks. I have the strong feeling there could be more, not listed in the PDF.

Massimo


I think I've found another one:

Location 37250: 15º Regimento de Cavalaria Mecanizado-Escola, Vila Militar, Rio de Janeiro



M41C, 2xL3

- I followed up the L3/35 in your Register and it certainly looks to me like the one I found in StreetView sitting outside is a different one to the one you list. Just click on the StreetView links if you want a closer link.


I've updated the PDF just two weeks ago, and I added it already (Rafal gave me a pointer). Thanks for letting me know anyway.

Massimo
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti
- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles. It was a virtual stash that would be the envy of any Stuart collector, though few, if any, were in "restored" condition. IIRC, there were legal issues about anyone trying to purchase or return any to the U.S. I've seen a couple of pics of this collection and a wild guess from memory was that he owned anywhere from 10-20 vehicles.


I think you are referring to this:

Massimo


Yes, that seems likely. Existence of this collection (which is hardly what it seemed to be...we're not speaking of a Littlefieldesque sort of character here) was fairly well known. The vehicles were exposed to the elements on this guys fazenda or something and he was sort of eccentric.

I was reminded of a guy in Missouri west of St. Louis near where I lived in the country who had 4-5 antique Harley-Davidsons left out in the front yard to rust, but was very unreceptive to any inquiries about buying any of them.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti

I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716


Thanks for the reminder - I'd forgotten about that collection. The story is in Classic Military Vehicle magazine 91, December 2008 (though bizarrely the front cover says 'Argentine M3 Stuarts'). Mike Stallwood was being pretty vague when he said the location was '125 miles north of Sao Paulo'. I did some digging and found it was at Itupeva, and I've started a write up here:

Location 37590: Private Collection, Itupeva, São Paulo

I've%20recently%20learned%20that%20the%20remainder%20of%20the%20collection%20moved%20to%20Braganca%20Paulista,%20and%20I've%20more%20information%20and%20pictures%20on%20the%20way,%20so%20I'll%20rewrite%20that%20entry%20soon.%20I'll%20also%20add%20those%20two%20Stuarts,%20plus%20the%20ones%20that%20then%20went%20on%20to%20Staman%20(which%20will%20neatly%20lead%20me%20back%20to%20working%20on%20Preserved%20Tanks%20in%20the%20Netherlands). Meanwhile,%20other%20new%20entries: Location%2037530:%2011ª%20Brigada%20de%20Infantaria%20Leve,%20Jardim%20Chapadão,%20Campinas,%20São%20Paulo M74%20TRV Location%2037280:%20Museu%20a%20Céu%20Aberto,%20Praça%20Dos%20Ex-Combatentes,%20São%20Gonçalo,%20Rio%20de%20Janeiro%20Region [img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/9_M3_ExCombatentes_SGTurismo_c.jpg[/img] M3A3%20Lee Location%2037860:%2029º%20Batalhão%20de%20Infanteria%20Blindado,%20Boi%20Morto,%20Santa%20Maria,%20Rio%20Grande%20do%20Sul M3A1%20Stuart Location%2037750:%2029º%20Batalhão%20de%20Infanteria%20Blindado,%20Boi%20Morto,%20Santa%20Maria,%20Rio%20Grande%20do%20Sul

M3A1 Stuart


- TrevorLarkum


I've researched this further and rewritten it:

Location 37850: Steindorff Viaturas, Panambi, Rio Grande do Sul

M3 x3, M41C x3, M5 HST, M4


Meanwhile I've added new models into the database so I can track different models of the X1 individually:

Preserved X1 Light Tanks

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I think I already send you quite a good amount of shots covering the swiss Stuart, including pictures taken during restoration.
The collection includes also: Alvis Striker (on sale right now), Alvis Sabre, M5 half-track, BMP-1, M29 Weasel. All runners. The Stuart arrived also with a spare diesel engine.
I have pictures of all of them, apart the Striker here:
www.flickr.com/photos/...249113513/

As for the one in Bovington, you can grab my shots directly from Flickr if you like.

Massimo
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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:53 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Some M3 Stuarts

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=7

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=8

www.steindorffviaturas...?codigo=10
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti
I think I already send you quite a good amount of shots covering the swiss Stuart, including pictures taken during restoration.
The collection includes also: Alvis Striker (on sale right now), Alvis Sabre, M5 half-track, BMP-1, M29 Weasel. All runners. The Stuart arrived also with a spare diesel engine.
I have pictures of all of them, apart the Striker here:
www.flickr.com/photos/...249113513/

As for the one in Bovington, you can grab my shots directly from Flickr if you like.

Massimo


I'll be working on those Stuarts next, thanks for use of the photos. I'll also try and track down any of the other tanks that originated at Itupeva.



- bialy-r


Yes, those are some of the links I used to write up the tanks there:

- TrevorLarkum
- TrevorLarkum


I've researched this further and rewritten it:

Location 37850: Steindorff Viaturas, Panambi, Rio Grande do Sul

M3 x3, M41C x3, M5 HST, M4




Anyway, my flights were booked yesterday and I got jabbed this morning, so it looks like it's on, for the end of August. If anyone has any requests for photo's just ask, and I'll try to accommodate them. I'm unlikely to get outside the Rio area, though, so these are the collections I'll try to get to, with the Linhares one closest to Rio centre the most likely:

Preserved Tanks in Rio de Janeiro

Meanwhile I'm away on a brief holiday nearer home so will be off the forum for a few days.

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Now that I think about it, the other M3 Stuart in Bovington comes from Brasil too. It was donated by the brasilian army and it's a runner:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716

Massimo
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