±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 778
Total: 778
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Statistics
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Your Account
26: Photo Gallery
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Downloads
33: Your Account
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Downloads
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: News
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Member Screenshots
88: News Archive
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: CPGlang
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Your Account
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Statistics
113: News Archive
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Downloads
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Statistics
130: Your Account
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Statistics
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Downloads
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Your Account
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Photo Gallery
170: News Archive
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Member Screenshots
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Photo Gallery
186: Photo Gallery
187: Downloads
188: Community Forums
189: Statistics
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Your Account
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Your Account
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Downloads
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Downloads
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Downloads
239: Photo Gallery
240: News Archive
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Your Account
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Downloads
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Downloads
284: Your Account
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Member Screenshots
291: Home
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Member Screenshots
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Member Screenshots
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Home
324: Your Account
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Downloads
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Statistics
365: Community Forums
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: News
375: Photo Gallery
376: Member Screenshots
377: Downloads
378: Photo Gallery
379: Photo Gallery
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Home
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: News Archive
405: Home
406: Member Screenshots
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: CPGlang
411: Photo Gallery
412: Community Forums
413: Your Account
414: Community Forums
415: News Archive
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Your Account
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: CPGlang
455: Community Forums
456: Your Account
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Treasury
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Downloads
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Home
479: Home
480: Photo Gallery
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Downloads
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Statistics
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Photo Gallery
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Your Account
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Member Screenshots
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Downloads
536: Member Screenshots
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Downloads
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Search
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Photo Gallery
569: Downloads
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Statistics
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Home
584: Statistics
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Downloads
589: Photo Gallery
590: Photo Gallery
591: Photo Gallery
592: Home
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Home
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Your Account
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Community Forums
609: Downloads
610: Photo Gallery
611: Home
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Home
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Downloads
628: Community Forums
629: Home
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Home
635: Home
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Downloads
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: CPGlang
644: Downloads
645: Community Forums
646: Photo Gallery
647: Downloads
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Member Screenshots
651: Photo Gallery
652: Photo Gallery
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Home
658: Community Forums
659: Home
660: Home
661: Community Forums
662: Home
663: Home
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Home
673: CPGlang
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Photo Gallery
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Home
684: Photo Gallery
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Photo Gallery
694: Home
695: Community Forums
696: Downloads
697: Community Forums
698: Home
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Home
702: Home
703: Community Forums
704: Member Screenshots
705: Downloads
706: Home
707: Member Screenshots
708: Community Forums
709: Photo Gallery
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Downloads
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Photo Gallery
723: Photo Gallery
724: News Archive
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Home
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Home
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Home
744: Community Forums
745: Photo Gallery
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Home
749: Downloads
750: Community Forums
751: Member Screenshots
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Member Screenshots
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Photo Gallery
760: Home
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Home
764: Home
765: Home
766: Community Forums
767: Photo Gallery
768: Community Forums
769: Home
770: Photo Gallery
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Your Account
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum