±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 751
Total: 751
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Your Account
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Your Account
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: News
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Your Account
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Photo Gallery
51: Downloads
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Downloads
65: News
66: Downloads
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Your Account
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: News
82: Downloads
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Downloads
88: Home
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Downloads
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Downloads
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Photo Gallery
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Downloads
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Downloads
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Downloads
150: Photo Gallery
151: Photo Gallery
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: CPGlang
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Statistics
170: Home
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: CPGlang
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Statistics
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Member Screenshots
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Downloads
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Downloads
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: News Archive
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: News Archive
250: Downloads
251: Home
252: CPGlang
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: CPGlang
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Photo Gallery
284: Statistics
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Your Account
288: Photo Gallery
289: Statistics
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: CPGlang
304: Downloads
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: News
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Home
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: News
329: Community Forums
330: Downloads
331: Downloads
332: CPGlang
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Your Account
340: Community Forums
341: Downloads
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Photo Gallery
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: News Archive
362: Member Screenshots
363: Photo Gallery
364: Member Screenshots
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Statistics
369: Your Account
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Downloads
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Your Account
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Member Screenshots
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Home
432: Downloads
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Downloads
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Downloads
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Home
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Member Screenshots
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Downloads
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Downloads
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Home
553: Home
554: Downloads
555: Photo Gallery
556: Downloads
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Home
560: Photo Gallery
561: Downloads
562: Your Account
563: Community Forums
564: Downloads
565: News
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Downloads
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: Downloads
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: News
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Downloads
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Home
597: Community Forums
598: News
599: Community Forums
600: News
601: Community Forums
602: Downloads
603: Downloads
604: Community Forums
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Downloads
611: Community Forums
612: Statistics
613: Home
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Photo Gallery
618: News Archive
619: Member Screenshots
620: Photo Gallery
621: Home
622: News
623: Home
624: CPGlang
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Statistics
632: Community Forums
633: Your Account
634: Downloads
635: Photo Gallery
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Member Screenshots
643: Home
644: Member Screenshots
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Home
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Member Screenshots
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Home
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Downloads
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: Home
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Photo Gallery
685: Community Forums
686: Home
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Home
693: Community Forums
694: Photo Gallery
695: Community Forums
696: Photo Gallery
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Downloads
701: Community Forums
702: Home
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Downloads
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Home
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Photo Gallery
716: CPGlang
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Photo Gallery
721: Downloads
722: Photo Gallery
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Photo Gallery
727: Downloads
728: Home
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Photo Gallery
732: CPGlang
733: Downloads
734: Downloads
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Photo Gallery
739: Downloads
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Photo Gallery
743: Downloads
744: CPGlang
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Downloads
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:03 pm
Post subject: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I saw a picture of the C27 Spartan and thought it had a striking resemblence to the C123 Provider. Their size and shapes are almost the same. I actually had the opportunity to fly in a C123 back in 1977-78, when I was in AFJROTC in H.S., noisier than a C130 and shook bad too. Rather surprised to see the C123 has a 3,000ft higher ceiling than the C27, as well as a 325 mile longer range. I didn't see a cost on the C27 but I bet its a lot more than the $601,719 for the C123.

C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Primary Function Cargo/passenger transport
Power Plant/Manufacturer Two General Electric T64-P4D engines
Shaft Horse Power 3,400 each
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
Speed 250 knots
Ceiling 25,000 feet
Takeoff Weight (Typical) 56,878 pounds
Empty Weight 39,500 pounds
Range 1,500 nautical miles
Takeoff Distance 1,500 feet
Runway 1,800 feet by 45 feet


The C-123
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 110 ft.
Length: 76 ft. 3 in.
Height: 34 ft. 6 in.
Weight: 60,000 lbs. max.
Armament: None
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800s of 2,500 hp. each and two General Electric J85s of 2,850 lbs. thrust each
Crew: Three or four
Cost: $601,719
Serial Number: 56-4362
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 240 mph.
Cruising speed: 170 mph.
Range: 1,825 miles
Service Ceiling: 28,000 ft.
[img][/img][img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- SFC_Jeff_Button
C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
[img][/img][img][/img]


34.7' feet wide independent of wingspan? Unless that includes horizontal stabilizers, I kinda' doubt it....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Neutral

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Neutral


Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner


Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David


Bingo! That be the one David!

I didn't know the Army had picked those up after the Air Force retired them. I remember when the Air Force went to the Sec. of Dec. wanting him to make the Army give up the C-7 Caribou which he did (I think it was McNamara) . I was very surpised to learn that the Army had a twin engine fixed wing cargo plane. Too short to handle the P&W F100 engines? I wonder if that engine would fit inside a C-7 Caribou?

I have a supervisor who is in an Army Reserve POL supply unit. His unit was called up for duty in Iraq. He has a number of stories about hair rising rides in Army C-23 Sherpas and the tactics the flight crews used to avoid SAM missles.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner
I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David


C-7 was smaller, I believe, David. Did the one you saw have radial engines (Caribou) or upgraded to turbines (Buffalo, with some airframe mods also)?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi, Doug. The Buffalo was a similar-looking but completely different bird. The one I walked about in was definitely a Caribou. The Caribou had a span of 95' 7", length of 72' 7", height of 31'8". Max takeoff weight was 28,500lbs. The Sherpa had a span of 74' 8", length of 58', height of 16' 3". Max takeoff weight was only slightly less at 25,500lbs. Don't have internal dimensions for the cargo compartment, but I seem to recall the C-7 looked bigger inside. Of course, my memory was never what it used to be!

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum