±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 782
Total: 782
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Photo Gallery
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Your Account
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: CPGlang
27: Community Forums
28: CPGlang
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Downloads
38: CPGlang
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: CPGlang
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: CPGlang
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: CPGlang
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: CPGlang
90: Community Forums
91: CPGlang
92: Community Forums
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: CPGlang
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Downloads
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Your Account
104: Home
105: Photo Gallery
106: Photo Gallery
107: Your Account
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: CPGlang
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Your Account
123: Your Account
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: CPGlang
146: Home
147: CPGlang
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: News
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Your Account
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: News Archive
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: CPGlang
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Your Account
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Your Account
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: CPGlang
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Member Screenshots
213: Your Account
214: CPGlang
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: News
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Your Account
234: Community Forums
235: Downloads
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Home
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: News Archive
243: Your Account
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Downloads
258: CPGlang
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Downloads
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: CPGlang
280: Community Forums
281: CPGlang
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: CPGlang
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: News Archive
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Member Screenshots
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: CPGlang
305: News
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: CPGlang
323: Downloads
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: CPGlang
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: CPGlang
341: CPGlang
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: CPGlang
348: Photo Gallery
349: News
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: CPGlang
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: CPGlang
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: CPGlang
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Member Screenshots
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: CPGlang
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: CPGlang
378: Community Forums
379: Downloads
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: CPGlang
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Photo Gallery
410: Member Screenshots
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: CPGlang
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Your Account
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Downloads
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Photo Gallery
428: Photo Gallery
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Photo Gallery
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: CPGlang
444: Photo Gallery
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Downloads
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: CPGlang
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Member Screenshots
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: CPGlang
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Photo Gallery
485: Statistics
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: CPGlang
492: CPGlang
493: CPGlang
494: Community Forums
495: Your Account
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Statistics
507: CPGlang
508: Downloads
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Home
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Photo Gallery
519: Home
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Downloads
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: CPGlang
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Downloads
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: News Archive
536: Community Forums
537: CPGlang
538: CPGlang
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: CPGlang
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: CPGlang
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Photo Gallery
591: Your Account
592: Community Forums
593: Your Account
594: Photo Gallery
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Member Screenshots
601: Community Forums
602: Downloads
603: Search
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: CPGlang
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Your Account
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Photo Gallery
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: CPGlang
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Photo Gallery
650: Your Account
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Member Screenshots
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Home
663: Home
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Downloads
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: CPGlang
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: CPGlang
681: Photo Gallery
682: CPGlang
683: Photo Gallery
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: News
693: Home
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Member Screenshots
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Your Account
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Home
706: Community Forums
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Downloads
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Photo Gallery
724: Community Forums
725: Photo Gallery
726: Community Forums
727: CPGlang
728: Photo Gallery
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Photo Gallery
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Home
740: Downloads
741: Member Screenshots
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Downloads
746: Photo Gallery
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Home
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Home
753: Community Forums
754: CPGlang
755: Home
756: CPGlang
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Photo Gallery
762: Community Forums
763: Member Screenshots
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Home
767: Photo Gallery
768: Home
769: Photo Gallery
770: Community Forums
771: CPGlang
772: Home
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Photo Gallery
777: Community Forums
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Photo Gallery
782: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker at NTC
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:43 am
Post subject: Stryker at NTC



I visited the NTC last week to follow 3rd Bde, 2nd ID as they went through a rotation to get ready for Iraq. Here is a "knocked out" scout from 1-14 Cav. The scenerio was that some insurgents took over a small town from the Iraqi security forces. with an armor depot nearby, so they had some armor. A BMP took out this scout. When I asked the VC how he let a BMP take him out, he said he was escorting a convoy back to post when he got hit. He said he could have taken out the BMP if he had his Javelin, but the CO took it from him. I don't know, if this were the "Legacy" army then the scouts would have had some anti-armor capability, like a 25mm gun at least.

Reminds me of early WWII German scounts who did not have much besides MGs to defend themselves with. And back then in 1939 and 1940 other armies did not have the punch that is out there today, so at least the Germans had a chance. I would not want to be a scout in a Stryker (other than Iraq where the threat is really non-existent).

Does anybody know what the code is on the corner of the vehicle? Does it possibly have to do w/ shipping, a la the codes used in OIF1. It definitely is not a serial number as that is on the front hull and is different.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:23 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

The code you speak of is the USA number, if you are refering to the black stencil on the OD paint (JO00IT). I have a couple vehicles on display here at NTC that have comparable USA #'s, (JJ03YM, JJ05UF, JZ002H, etc...). Even if he had his Javelin, OPFOR and the "Insurgents" of the NTC are quite good. I have taken out a Marine LAV here back in summer of 04 with relative ease with 155 shells buried under the road suface on a one lane bridge by East Gate village. Marines ahd actually walked over and stepped on the round while I acted as an inocent civilian. Once the vehicle moved over the bridge which had been "cleared" by the ground troops, "BOOM"!. The OC's "killed" the vehicle and a couple ground troops as we walked away. Another good day for the OPFOR!!!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:12 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

And I came upon an OC who was MFing the men at a checkpoint at Junction City for making a tactical mistake I will not go into here. It was amusing to listen to him, "This town is grey now, but it will be going black soon!"

Man, and those OCs are hardcore. Freezing temps and no doors or windshields. They all have heater hoses tucked into their BDUs and whatnot! I have had my fill of driving in Humvees over rough ground. I had to ride like I would a horse, anticipating the bumps and raising my butt off the seat to take the bump. Also, almost rolled over when a turn came up going at speed in the dark - whoaaa, hold on! If it weren't for the seatbelt I would have got tossed out on that slide since those seats are damn small! Or maybe it was my big fat butt that did not fit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:26 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

- Burik

I visited the NTC last week to follow 3rd Bde, 2nd ID as they went through a rotation to get ready for Iraq. Here is a "knocked out" scout from 1-14 Cav. The scenerio was that some insurgents took over a small town from the Iraqi security forces. with an armor depot nearby, so they had some armor. A BMP took out this scout. When I asked the VC how he let a BMP take him out, he said he was escorting a convoy back to post when he got hit. He said he could have taken out the BMP if he had his Javelin, but the CO took it from him. I don't know, if this were the "Legacy" army then the scouts would have had some anti-armor capability, like a 25mm gun at least.
Bob


Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

Thanks for the photo of a M1127 RCV Stryker.

Interesting that the C.O. took the VC's AT-4 Javelin away from him.
That would be like a WW II German Commander or a Legacy Commander taking the auto cannon off the scout vehicle. Sad
The AT-4 is the primary anti-armor weapon/round of ammo for scout RCVs and infantry ICVs of the Stryker Brigades. Puzzling. I wonder why the VC didn't use his Scout Scope (I think that system is called a RVSS?) to ID the BMP and then take the convoy his was escorting around it? Neutral

- Burik

Reminds me of early WWII German scounts who did not have much besides MGs to defend themselves with. And back then in 1939 and 1940 other armies did not have the punch that is out there today, so at least the Germans had a chance. I would not want to be a scout in a Stryker (other than Iraq where the threat is really non-existent).

Bob


If not a Stryker, what do you think would be a better scout vehicle?

How about using a M-151 mounting a M-60 machine gun? Rolling Eyes

The Stryker Brigades are not designed for something like the Warsaw Pack vis NATO full blown fire fight, putting them into something like that would be a major mis-used. But then we have taken an Airborne Infantry BCT and thrown it out into the desert for use as a speed bump to stop or delay an armored attack south out of Kuwait. An SBCT would have a much better chance of pulling off a delaying action like that with a lot fewer casualties. The Stryker FOVs/SBCTs adds another tool to Combat Commander's tool box. No vehicle or system is prefect for all conditions. Confused

Unless we are talking about the greatest Scout vehicle ever. The M114 Lingle.

Any chance you where able to take some other photos of the NTC during your visit? Razz

Just my 2 cents for the discussion. Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:28 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

Roy:

I was wondering the same thing about the BMP. I was not in a position to really quiz him, as we were pulling out, and he probably would have gotten ticked off with too many "insulting" questions. As Sgt Button noted, those OPFOR guys are pretty good. Maybe they popped out from behind good cover before he could do anything about it.

The whole Stryker concept perplexes me a little. The Marines have a darned good vehicle in the LAV and it has plenty of firepower and is light at the same time. Why can't the Stryker have the Bradley turret on it? I would think it would still fit in a C130, which seems to be a major requirement. I know the threats out there are not like the old Soviet days, but the N Koreans are pretty strong, and the Syrians, and the Iranians. Sending a Stryker Bde to be the first point of contact would be even worse than the 82nd w/ their Sheridans since the Sheridans at least could shoot back. But I have no problem w/ the Stryker's use in Iraq. I have first hand experience w/ how quiet it is, and so it is great for raids and such. Just as long as the Stryker guys are not expected to go up against enemy w/ armor or anti-armor capabilities... Plus, it's offroad capabilites are not as good as say a Bradley or M113, and it may be in a tough spot in a built up area since it can not make tight turns like a tracked vehicle. But, wheeled vehicles are not as tough to maintain. So, yes, there is no perfect vehicle. As long as it is not misused...

Yes, I have lots more photos. I can share some here. I plan on doing an article or two in Military Modelling of England coinciding w/ the new Trumpeter kit coming out. I also plan on doing a photo history book on the NTC. Digital cameras are the greatest. THere is no such thing as wasted film, and LOTS of photos can be taken, as long as you have enough flash cards or flash card space. One version I did not get enough good shots of were the engineer vehicles. But, I am invited up to Ft Lewis (I live in Portland, OR) to see some more at the motorpool. I need to see some with the slat armor. I think I have a coulpe of cool shots of an FA unit during a live fire exercise taking down a small village.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

i49.photobucket.com/al...gas011.jpg

I took this shot after a long day, so I was too lazy to get out of the OC Humvee, but the OCs have no windshields, so no problem. It is the FA guys mounting up onto the Strykers from the Recon unit that was attached to them. Live ammo, so everybody is pumped up after a couple of dry runs. The Recon unit is not the Cav guys though, like the first photo in this thread. I am told this is a newer idea, and you can see there are a mixture of vehicles in a small unit/platoon.

i49.photobucket.com/al...gas010.jpg

This second shot is the same guys, but earlier. This was one of the dry runs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC





Sorry about that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC



"If not a Stryker, what do you think would be a better scout vehicle?"

How about using a M-151 mounting a M-60 machine gun? Rolling Eyes


Ha! BTDT....no thanky, Roy! At least, not without the added protection of canvas doors....

I have had my fill of driving in Humvees over rough ground. I had to ride like I would a horse, anticipating the bumps and raising my butt off the seat to take the bump. Also, almost rolled over when a turn came up going at speed in the dark - whoaaa, hold on! If it weren't for the seatbelt I would have got tossed out on that slide since those seats are damn small!


Bob...now we get to the heart of the M151 question. If you thing the Humvee is a bad ride, get in the back of an M151 sometime! Laughing
...and don't think about taking turns at speed...just don't.

Oh....what's a "seat belt"? Shocked

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

This rotation you took the pictures of was the first to utilize "live ammo" to within 200 meters of the towns. There was very strict compliance with who could go and be where at certain times. OC's played a much larger and important role than usual because of this ammo training. I know of a few 1SG's that were more worried about their troops being out in the "box" with ammo than they were about being in Iraq with ammo, and they were vocal about it at the command and staff meeting. As much as you try to replicate and make it seem like a combat enviroment, there is still that part in the back of your mind that knows your not, and therefore soldiers aren't always as careful with their weapons as they should be. But so far, so good, no ones been hurt and I haven't heard of any accidental discharges yet. Believe me, when they happen, we'll know, that kind of incident spread like wild fire.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

- Burik
Roy:

The whole Stryker concept perplexes me a little. The Marines have a darned good vehicle in the LAV and it has plenty of firepower and is light at the same time. Why can't the Stryker have the Bradley turret on it? I would think it would still fit in a C130, which seems to be a major requirement.
Bob


Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

It's not good to compair the Marines with the Army when it comes to 8x8 armored cars.

The Marines are using their LAV-25s in Recon Battalions. They only carry four dismount Scouts in the back of those vehicles. With the Delco 25 mm turret, there is ONLY room for six combat loaded Marines. One of the major problems learned with the Bradley and that turret is there isn't enough room to carry a squad of infantry (nine men) in a Bradley Infantry Company. The Stryker could be fitted with a Bradley turret or a Delco 25 turret and still fit inside a C-130. The Canadain Forces use LAV IIIs with the Delco 25 turret and we have been told by some of them that those vehicles do fit inside a C-130. The Army could have added a 25mm turret but it would reduce the number of troops a Stryker can carry and that would require more Strykers to carry the number of infantry men in the BCT. As for the Scouts (I to would have liked to have seen the M1127 RCV fitted with a 25mm turret) but that would add weight to the supply tail. More ammo (in this case, only used by the Scouts). More parts to repair things (in this case, again limited to only the Scout vehicles). The idea is to get an infantry brigade in the air with the least amount of lift aircarft and tied up the least amount of aircraft required to support and resupply the BCT once it is there.

Think of a Stryker BCT as light infantry unit (as in walking and must carry almost everything on their backs) that has been upgraded with trucks that have some armored protection. This is an upgrade of light infantry, not a down grade of mech infantry with lighter vehicles. The Scouts in the SBCT are light scouts who will need to use movement and concealment to do their job. They are not heavy Armored Cavarly Scouts who can fight for information or conduct an ecomany of force operation. That VC you talked with would have been conducting that convoy escort mission with a M151 or Hummer if he was still in a light infantry brigade. The BMP would have still got him if he was not watching and drove out into it's kill zone. With a light infantry scout unit, you have walking Scouts and light wheeled vehicle mounted scouts. The Stryker RCV can carry a lot of AT-4s, more troops in each vehicle, carry that very heavy Long Range Scout Surveillance System (LRAS3, the super scout scope I was talking about in my other post). When thinking about a light infantry brigade and the scouts units, Stryker is a major upgrade.

- Burik

I know the threats out there are not like the old Soviet days, but the N Koreans are pretty strong, and the Syrians, and the Iranians. Sending a Stryker Bde to be the first point of contact would be even worse than the 82nd w/ their Sheridans since the Sheridans at least could shoot back.
Bob


Sending a Stryker BCT would have been worse that the 82nd w/their Sheridans?
Hold on here David! First of all we are NOT talking about all of the 82nd Airborne Division. We are talking about ONE BCT from the 82nd. About the same number of infantry, maybe a little bit less than what a SBCT now has. Sheirdans? We are not talking about the complete battalion. We are talking about ONE tank company, divided three ways with four tanks support each battalion of dismouted infantry. Dismounted infantry that could only get out of the way of a heavy division attack by digging in and keeping their heads down or using their feet and trying to run away in an open desert. It would have been very hard for that BCT to conduct a delaying action once the troops had been dropped off. A SBCT on the other hand would have been able to load up the infantry and move them to one delaying position after another. Using AT-4s to reduce the number of attacking AFVs.

- Burik

But I have no problem w/ the Stryker's use in Iraq. I have first hand experience w/ how quiet it is, and so it is great for raids and such. Just as long as the Stryker guys are not expected to go up against enemy w/ armor or anti-armor capabilities... Plus, it's offroad capabilites are not as good as say a Bradley or M113, and it may be in a tough spot in a built up area since it can not make tight turns like a tracked vehicle. But, wheeled vehicles are not as tough to maintain. So, yes, there is no perfect vehicle. As long as it is not misused...
Bob



When it comes to military operations, one must always be ready to use what is available to do what ever must be done. Someday, possible somewhere those Stryker BCTs may end up facing a heavy armored force and those troopers had better know how to use what they have to do the best they can. Task Force Smith and the Battle of the Bulge are two possible examples where units where tasked to do things they where never designed for.

- Burik

Yes, I have lots more photos. I can share some here. I plan on doing an article or two in Military Modelling of England coinciding w/ the new Trumpeter kit coming out. I also plan on doing a photo history book on the NTC. Digital cameras are the greatest. THere is no such thing as wasted film, and LOTS of photos can be taken, as long as you have enough flash cards or flash card space. One version I did not get enough good shots of were the engineer vehicles. But, I am invited up to Ft Lewis (I live in Portland, OR) to see some more at the motorpool. I need to see some with the slat armor. I think I have a coulpe of cool shots of an FA unit during a live fire exercise taking down a small village.
Bob


Super, can not wait to see what you can share with us all.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:06 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:59 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

Roy, well said. Point taken.

Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:04 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

It just hit me that these Strykers do not have the bar armor on them. Seems that if they are training for deployment they would try to have vehicles equiped the same way as they will use in the field. I can see the extra size affecting everything from how the vehicle drives to how you dismount and clear the vehicle.

Just seems like a big oversight to me

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:22 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker at NTC

- bsmart
It just hit me that these Strykers do not have the bar armor on them. Seems that if they are training for deployment they would try to have vehicles equiped the same way as they will use in the field. I can see the extra size affecting everything from how the vehicle drives to how you dismount and clear the vehicle.

Just seems like a big oversight to me


Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

It's not an oversight. It's another case of NOT ENOUGH MONEY Evil or Very Mad . One of the lessons learned by the first two SBCTs was the drivers need some training with all that extra bar armor. The corrective plan is to buy a few sets for the state side units so all drivers can get some experence driving with the cages installed. Besides, the bird cages are an intrim Evil or Very Mad fix, the Army is working on next phase of protection.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum