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off topic Vietnam
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Al_Bowie
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Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

The forward Bolt Assist was ingrained in our weapon handling drills on the M16 (Aust Army). When cocking the weapon we hammered the bolt assist as part of the drill regardless of whether the bolt seated or not.
This caused some confusion in one early live shoot when the weapon I was allocated to on the range (our normal weapons were SLR L1A1) was an early M16 with no Bolt assist.

In one of the training courses i did the subject of the M16's introduction to service was discussed and in particular why it was a bad idea to not fully train troops with new equipment on issue. In particular it appears that the early training indicated incorrect cleaning procedures for the weapon. Coupled with propellent problems which fouled the Gas return line it led to many a problem with poorly seated bolts and subsequent failures to fire.

Discussions with our vets indicated ejection fauilures on early models hence the pics of troops with Cleaning rods taped to the weapon to dislodge un ejected cartridges.


Cheers
Spanner
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oldtop
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Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:37 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

You can buy AR15 in just about any configuration you want, such as this one pictured below, which is one the ARs I shoot at the local range.

It's weight is around 9lbs because of the heavy "bull barrel"
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:41 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- oldtop
I guess I'm an "ole guy", having landed in Nam in April of 65 (Marines), we didn't see the M16s till late 66 I believe. as for myself being a track-mec/ scout in a Ontos (hi dontos) plt. I kept my M14.


Hey 'Ole Top' just been doing some reading,.... Guess you rode the waves in with 3/4 Marines & 3rd Plt, Co B, 3rd AT?

Just trying to do my 'Homework'.


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oldtop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Yup..April 15, However, and this is what I ment by what the records say and what the records should say, it was 3rd plt "C" company that landed with BLT 3/4, less than two months later this plt became the 3rd plt of "B" company with the stroke of a pen. This drove some of the other nembers of the original "C" company nuts, Lt Terry couldn't figuer out how I was of the roster for both companys in the same year and month. It's the little forgoten things that make people come to differant . They had forgot about the 1st Lt (hardhead) who was the plt leader at the time of the landing, he had just come into the company three days before the BLT sailed and none of the other officers knew him.
...the "story", In mid June (16th) the plt was leading a Arty Baty of 105mm guns to a new firing postion on the road about ten clicks outside Hue, first three vehicles were Ontos, I was sitting on the front right of the slope plate on the 2nd Pig in the column I watched for the lead Pig to stop and the plt Sgt would wave , this was the hand signal for me to come up and check out what ever was bothering him to his front (sharp blind bends in the road, bridges, fording places, and down into the the valleys of death..etc). as the vehicle I was on move along the road we were about a foot out of and to the right the lead Pig's tracks when "bang" we hit a mine on the right side. ..I went straight up and ricocheted off the right inboard gun tube and then landed on the engine grill right next to the driver's hatch, I yelled to "Harrie the Hog" the driver to kill the engine before we caught on fire, I crawled off the front but was having a little trouble standing, the blast besides making a wreck of the Pig had blown my right ear drum..other than that I was OK. Oh then some dummy rushed up to help and stepped on my sunglasses that had flown off..man do you know how hard it is to get sunglasses that fit in Nam in 1965!
Anyway two days later they flew a replacement Pig in and we were off on a "combat patrol" supporting a grunt unit, and we're at a "halt" out in "Indian country" I was on a small rise scaning with my binos (I hate surprises) when I heard this commotion back at the plt, our 1st Lt plt leader was sitting on the roadside bank crying and carrying on about how he couldn't sent the troops out to get killed any more..well he was replaced the next day and he became the lost and forgotten plt leader of "B" company 3rd Anti Tank Bn..and this is something that's not in any of the Marine Corps command reports.... Oh..ehh, I didn't hear what you said, a little hard of hearing ya know.
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GT98
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Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:39 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Joe_D
Doug is correct,
Your rifle is your personal weapon and if leadership cannot instill the value of maintaining and qualifying it in their troops the leadership needs to go away. Sorry, this subject gets to me. There is nothing wrong with the M16 today if put in the hands of a trained soldier. The old "I'm just a mechanic/cook/truck driver, what do I need to know that for?" just don't cut it.


I know when I was deployed to Bosina back in early 1996, I sure as hell made sure my M16A2 was clean at all times, even though I was just a mechanic (3/4 inch too tall to be a Tanker LOL). I know some of my fellow soliders had issues with that...but what else is there to do at 2 AM on radio watch? Smile
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

better safe than sorry
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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- oldtop
Yup..April 15, However, and this is what I ment by what the records say and what the records should say, it was 3rd plt "C" company that landed with BLT 3/4, less than two months later this plt became the 3rd plt of "B" company with the stroke of a pen. This drove some of the other nembers of the original "C" company nuts, Lt Terry couldn't figuer out how I was of the roster for both companys in the same year and month. It's the little forgoten things that make people come to differant . They had forgot about the 1st Lt (hardhead) who was the plt leader at the time of the landing, he had just come into the company three days before the BLT sailed and none of the other officers knew him.
...the "story", In mid June (16th) the plt was leading a Arty Baty of 105mm guns to a new firing postion on the road about ten clicks outside Hue, first three vehicles were Ontos, I was sitting on the front right of the slope plate on the 2nd Pig in the column I watched for the lead Pig to stop and the plt Sgt would wave , this was the hand signal for me to come up and check out what ever was bothering him to his front (sharp blind bends in the road, bridges, fording places, and down into the the valleys of death..etc). as the vehicle I was on move along the road we were about a foot out of and to the right the lead Pig's tracks when "bang" we hit a mine on the right side. ..I went straight up and ricocheted off the right inboard gun tube and then landed on the engine grill right next to the driver's hatch, I yelled to "Harrie the Hog" the driver to kill the engine before we caught on fire, I crawled off the front but was having a little trouble standing, the blast besides making a wreck of the Pig had blown my right ear drum..other than that I was OK. Oh then some dummy rushed up to help and stepped on my sunglasses that had flown off..man do you know how hard it is to get sunglasses that fit in Nam in 1965!
Anyway two days later they flew a replacement Pig in and we were off on a "combat patrol" supporting a grunt unit, and we're at a "halt" out in "Indian country" I was on a small rise scaning with my binos (I hate surprises) when I heard this commotion back at the plt, our 1st Lt plt leader was sitting on the roadside bank crying and carrying on about how he couldn't sent the troops out to get killed any more..well he was replaced the next day and he became the lost and forgotten plt leader of "B" company 3rd Anti Tank Bn..and this is something that's not in any of the Marine Corps command reports.... Oh..ehh, I didn't hear what you said, a little hard of hearing ya know.


Thanks for the input. Been reading 'more than a handful of CC's in the past week. Always neat to hear the 'insider' view.

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oldtop
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

You may have noticed that there are no Marine "CC" for this mess we'er in now, thats because all the data from the units and commands is laying to one side in a vault at the University of Marines in it's raw form and know one knows what to do with it. However last year the 1st Amored Div found it's self in the same mess and got someone to lay it all in a nice comprehensible state.
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mike_Duplessis
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Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:30 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Here's one of the few photosthese days from the Army showing an actual full-length M16(A1?) in Iraq. You'll notice the carrying handle doesn't seem to be removable. Everyone behind him either has an M4 carbine or a SAW.

The SAW in back isn't too clear - does that weapon look shorter than normal to you?
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:17 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- mike_Duplessis
Here's one of the few photosthese days from the Army showing an actual full-length M16(A1?) in Iraq. You'll notice the carrying handle doesn't seem to be removable. Everyone behind him either has an M4 carbine or a SAW.



Hi Folks!

M-16(A1?), I'm not sure, but I think that might be a M16A2. Hand guards don't look right for the types of M-16A1s that I had to carry. That rifle has the newer rounded type of guards.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Jinx
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Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- mike_Duplessis
The SAW in back isn't too clear - does that weapon look shorter than normal to you?



That is a short-barreled "paratroopers" variant. The original FN Minimi has a number of different paratrooper models, so it looks like the M249 can be similarly configured. This one looks like it has the fixed buttstock, but they are also (and i believe more commonly) available with telescoping buttstocks. The regular Minimi/M249 barrel is 465 mm long, and the para model has a 349 mm barrel.
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C_Sherman
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Posts: 590

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Roy_A_Lingle
...I think that might be a M16A2. Hand guards don't look right for the types of M-16A1s that I had to carry. That rifle has the newer rounded type of guards.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile


The closest weapon is an M16A2. The brass deflector bump behind the ejection port is the giveaway. It takes the place of the plastic clip-on deflector that was previously used by left-handed shooters. As for why this guy has a full size M16, I don't know. But he may be the designated sharpshooter for the squad/platoon, specifically tasked with "sniping" at longer ranges. The increased range and more stable hold of the longer weapon would be desirable in that case.

The second weapon is an M4, and the rear weapon is a short-barreled SAW.

C

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will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
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