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Never seen this one before....
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:08 pm
Post subject: Never seen this one before....

Found this photo while surfing around. Never seen this before.



FYI
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

Doesn't surprise me. The Marines are always looking for something a bit smaller that what the Army uses so their helicopters have more range when airlifting.

I wonder if by chance, that vehicle will fit inside a CH-53 or maybe a V-22?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:06 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Its a Gelandewagen - plenty of images on JED

www.jedsite.info/trans...eries.html

MerecedesBenz manufacture - its the first IFAV I've seen with a TOW mount though.

Cool

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oldertop
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:59 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Ya..its the Corps Mercedes "SUV," theres a row of them sitting in a lot at Camp Lejeune. It seems the Corps still had not at the time they put these "tincan" fighting vehicles in service lerned the differance between a fighting vehicle and just another bad idea. The first thing they (the USMC) found out was that when engaged in a fight the personnel in the front seats were dead ducks....so they remove the front doors to allow the personnel a chance to bail out ..Oh they also forgot the the vehicle has no armor so the bullets just go through one side (and who ever is inside) and out the other, and the maint of these vehicles was contracted out side the Corps. And no it won't fit in a V-22, one thing the Corps forgot to mention during the hipe campaign for the V-22 was there wasn't a single vehicle in the inventory that would fit in this aircraft....So without calling to much attention the corps has let a contract out for the development of a vehicle that will fit inside...oh and the total lifting cap. of the V-22 is 10,000 lbs. so we now know it won't be a fighting vehicle huh.
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Looks like the good old MB290. In the early days of the air mobile brigade over here they used also MB290s with TOWs.

IIRC they are now replaced by LSVs with Gills.

BTW is it normal on ranges that you don't use camo, hessian etc?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

I think these should be replaced by the new Internally Transportable Vehicles (ITV):

hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mi...ehicle.pdf



Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

- oldertop
Ya..its the Corps Mercedes "SUV," theres a row of them sitting in a lot at Camp Lejeune. It seems the Corps still had not at the time they put these "tincan" fighting vehicles in service lerned the differance between a fighting vehicle and just another bad idea. The first thing they (the USMC) found out was that when engaged in a fight the personnel in the front seats were dead ducks....so they remove the front doors to allow the personnel a chance to bail out ..Oh they also forgot the the vehicle has no armor so the bullets just go through one side (and who ever is inside) and out the other, and the maint of these vehicles was contracted out side the Corps. And no it won't fit in a V-22, one thing the Corps forgot to mention during the hipe campaign for the V-22 was there wasn't a single vehicle in the inventory that would fit in this aircraft....So without calling to much attention the corps has let a contract out for the development of a vehicle that will fit inside...oh and the total lifting cap. of the V-22 is 10,000 lbs. so we now know it won't be a fighting vehicle huh.


IFAV served the same purpose as its predecessors and its replacement as a fast attack vehicle - it isn't and never was intended to stand there and slog it out hence the lack of armour.

As for the Osprey thing - the IFAV fits in the CH-46 Sea Knight, CH-53 Sea Stallion and the Osprey. In the case of the Osprey its was one of the design criteria.

Just added some more images to JED.

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Jim,
You mean the ITV would fit in the -46, 53 and V-22 right? According to the pdf, the IFAV can fit in a -53, but not a V-22.

Neil
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oldertop
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Ya all it needs is to have a top speed of 2,000+ fps so it can out run the bullets,Its listed as a fighting vehicle so what kind of fight will it get into...snowballs! If this vehicle is used on patrols they'll need a spoon and plastic bag to pick up whats left of the crew, it does not fit in a V-22's cargo area and thats why theres a development contract for a new vehicle, the "Globe" announced the development contract two months ago . Have you ever seen the cargo space of the V-22 (and yes I have as well as been in one) and theres no way in hell you'er going to get that SUV in it, its a damn tight fit for 18 combat ready troopers as it is.
As for this vehicles predecessor (remember its the Marine Corps) they had brought back the M151 (someone saw to many "The Desert Rats" TV shows) , but the U.S. Navy was madder than hell about it because once again they would have't have gasoline storage for these vehicles on they'er landing support ships, what finely killed off the M151s was the parts shortage (there was none in the system).
I'll bet someone will come up with the well used quote " this vehicle was never designed to go near the front lines", and the answer to that is "this nation hasn't fought a war with a frontline in 35 years!"
As for the dimension of the V22 (given 5.10 ft.) what hey don't mention is that its "T" shaped with the smaller with dimensions at the lower section.


Last edited by oldertop on Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

The maximum width of a G-wagen is 5.6 - the minimum cargo area width of an Osprey is 5.10 tight yes but still feasible.

Cool

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oldertop
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

then why let a development contract?
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb

As for the Osprey thing - the IFAV fits in the CH-46 Sea Knight, CH-53 Sea Stallion and the Osprey.


If the IFAV(G-wagon) fits, then why does the USMC Concepts + Programs 2005 pdf say: "The Interim Fast Attack Vehicle is currently fielded and is deployable inside the CH-53 aircraft, but the GCE currently has no (<<<<<?????) ground mobility platform that can deploy inside (<<<<<<?????) the MV-22."

I read that to mean the IFAV (G-wagon) does NOT fit inside a MV-22.

- JimWeb

In the case of the Osprey its was one of the design criteria.


I understand the ITV (mini-M151) was designed to fit inside the MV-22. Are you saying the IFAV(G-wagon) was picked because it would fit inside the MV-22?

Very confuzed. Confused
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

No actually what I am working my way round to saying is the USMC would probably have their funding for the new vehicle cut or removed if, officially, the IFAV did fit in the Osprey.

Do you follow my reasoning?

Cool

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:57 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

Hi Odertop! Hi Folks!

- oldertop

Ya all it needs is to have a top speed of 2,000+ fps so it can out run the bullets,Its listed as a fighting vehicle so what kind of fight will it get into...snowballs! If this vehicle is used on patrols they'll need a spoon and plastic bag to pick up whats left of the crew, ...
.....As for this vehicles predecessor (remember its the Marine Corps) they had brought back the M151 (someone saw to many "The Desert Rats" TV shows) , .....
.....I'll bet someone will come up with the well used quote " this vehicle was never designed to go near the front lines", .....


I see the IFAV(G-wagon) as the newest version of the WW II gun jeep where Scouts armed with machine guns and light mortars leading the main force units. The Army has deployed Scouts with light wheeled vehicles ever sense the first jeeps. It wasn't until the M1114 uparmored Hummer was fielded that scouts had a wheeled vehicle with some armor. A vehicle that, do to it's large size, many claim is the wrong type of vehicle for scouts.

I agree that this type of vehicle is a bit new to the Corps and I am not sure just what the plan is for them. But then I am still trying to understand why the Corps has four light armored recon battalions using 8x8 armored cars.

My guess is those light wheeled vehicles will be used on patrols (and scouting missions) and the crews and their leadership will taking on much more than snowballs. Just like Army Scouts have been sense WWII. Nothing new about using none armored wheeled vehicles in a shooting match.

"The Desert Rats" TV show is good entainment. All Scouts get a good laugh watching a jeep with a machine gun take out a M47 medium tank. Lesson to be learned is NEVER try that in real shooting match.

As for someone claiming those vehicles where not designed to go near a front line, that's true! They are designed to be airlifted over and dropped behind the front lines. Wink

The Marines are changing, hopefully they will be able to put the right mix of riflemen and supporting equipment together for the next mission.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:17 am
Post subject: Re: Never seen this one before....

This is quite a different photo.

Found it in a newsletter from a Texas Military site. Lost the link, but printed up a couple of pages with interesting photos. I'll dig up the link and post it.




Edit: I found it. Here is the link: Texas Military Museum Newsletter

Don

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