±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 604
Total: 604
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Statistics
18: Community Forums
19: Your Account
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: Statistics
37: Community Forums
38: Your Account
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Home
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: News Archive
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Statistics
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Your Account
64: Member Screenshots
65: Photo Gallery
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Your Account
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Downloads
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: CPGlang
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: CPGlang
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Statistics
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: News Archive
157: Community Forums
158: Statistics
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Your Account
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Member Screenshots
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Statistics
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Member Screenshots
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Downloads
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Downloads
240: Treasury
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Member Screenshots
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Downloads
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Home
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Downloads
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Your Account
344: Statistics
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Your Account
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Your Account
369: CPGlang
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Photo Gallery
388: Photo Gallery
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Your Account
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Downloads
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Home
431: News
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Downloads
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: News Archive
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Member Screenshots
465: Community Forums
466: Downloads
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Home
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: News Archive
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: CPGlang
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Member Screenshots
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Your Account
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Member Screenshots
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Your Account
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Your Account
505: Community Forums
506: CPGlang
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Downloads
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Downloads
518: Community Forums
519: Member Screenshots
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Your Account
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Photo Gallery
540: Home
541: Home
542: Photo Gallery
543: Home
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Your Account
566: News Archive
567: Photo Gallery
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: CPGlang
574: Photo Gallery
575: Photo Gallery
576: Photo Gallery
577: Photo Gallery
578: Downloads
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: CPGlang
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Downloads
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Downloads
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:51 pm
Post subject: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Last night I received an e-mail from Ed Heasley saying they were planning on moving the Elephant this morning. After some soul searching and 'Telecommuting' into work very early this morning to make sure I could afford to take off I decided to take at least the morning off and drive up to Aberdeen to watch and document the effort.

The tow truck arrives


First we push


Then we pull


The HETT arrives


Hooking up the cables


The first tug


Almost there!


Loaded up


We got us a convoy!!


There was one casualty of the move. There was a 4-5' black snake that insisted on climbing onto the tracks and drive sproket. is now 2 1' snakes, 1 2' snake, and a lot of goo!


They left the Elephant on the HETT tonight in the motorpool and will drop it at the Refurb center in the morning.

Two final notes - Ed asked me to let everyone know that I already gave him copies of all the pictures I took today so there is no need to send him any! And I would have had his out an hour ago but Firefox decided to update itself just before I hit submit and I lost the entire message!

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Great pics Bob!

I take it the tracks "rolled" okay? Otherwise I'd have worried about the tracks ripping off, like the Mile of Tanks ones... Didnt they try to use TWO M88s last time they tried to move it for just that reason? Seems like they did it rather easily this time...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:23 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

The background to the sudden change in the elephant's status

As I understand it the Commanding General asked at her staff meting why 'the old tank' was still sitting at the railhead. Dr Atwater explained the long history about not being able to get it moved. Then she asked something to the staff like 'You mean we can't move a tank?' After the meeting the Colnel called the recovery section chief and asked something like 'Chief why can't we move a tank?' The Chief ( a Chief Warrant Officer) said 'Sir we haven't been asked, of course we can move a tank'. In all fairness this has gone on so long the folks involved now are not the ones who had problems years ago.

Anyway The ball got rolling quickly. The Warrants and NCOs checked things like weight and balance, got clearances for a heavy move across base and arranged a base police escort. They were surprised that the Elephant uses an electric transmission (The comment was they had hybred drive 50 years ago? I told them there is at least one other similar vehicle (The T23) in the museums possecion. Rolling Eyes )

This was obviously a well qualified group. There were several Warrants, and most of the rest were E6s and E7s with a few civilians. Several sported Senior Instructor badges on their uniforms. They quickly layed out the planned operation, had an alternative prepared if they had trouble loading like they did last time. While waiting for the HETT to arrive they pulled the Elephant forward and back about 100yards to loosen up the track. The pictures were taken from so far back while they were winching it up because they insisted that everyone not actively involved be further away from the action than the cable was long (just in case Shocked ) Everything went very smoothly, if not as quickly as some thought it could.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:25 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Great pics, great story. I can't wait to see this monster restored.
Back to top
View user's profile
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Thanks for the pictures Bob

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:39 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Really great news !! I'm happy to see this and really hope that this very rare tank will be now better preserved !!

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?

Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?

Great set of photos.

I, too would love to see this one restored.

Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??

Thanks for the update.

Chris Neel
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- jcneel
Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?


Well they have wanted it moved for years Rolling Eyes It does not have a 'slot' in the refurb schedule at the moment. Right now refurb is working on the Vickers Mk 6 light tank, the Mae West, and the Firefly. The Firefly got it's first primer coat this week so it is occupying the Paint Booth for a while.


Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?


Well by now (He looks at the clock) it should be unloaded outside the refurb shop. It will sit on the concrete pad outside the paint booth (next to the 'Vigilant' SP gatling gun) until they decide to put it in the paint booth.


Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??


No update on the Tiger. I am hoping that the 'notification system' that Ed used for the Elephant was a dry run for how I will find out about the Tiger (although I am hoping for a little more lead time). Rest assured as soon as I have any news I can pass on I will let everyone know. But there may be a 'News Embargo' when the Tiger comes back. That will probably be a much higher profile event and there is talk about the Air Force and Ordnance Public Affairs folks wanting to control the announcements. I just hope I don't get completely frozen out of things when the time comes.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:42 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Good point, depends on whether they leave it in the "behind the fence" area... Since its already been refurbed thanks to Mr Wheatcroft, I wouldnt think it would need to go through the refurb facility... So what do they plan to do with it anyway? Park it outside the museum?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- bsmart
- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink


Is coming in by air transport a sure thing? Is there a possibility it could be sent over by container ship? That was one problem when the museum acquired the JagdPanzer IV from the UK. It was shipped over and spent a long time sitting on the dock. During that time the persiscopes and other equipment were stolen. I do hope they fly it directly to APG to avoid that from happening.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I think there are several problems with Sea transport

1) This won't fit inside a standard 8' wide container. That means it has be shipped in a non container ship. Most of thoise today are RO-ROs. But most commercial RO-ROs are set up for consumer vehicles and don't have deck height needed or decks that will handle the concentrated loading. On top of that I doubt the shipping line would want it to be towed across their decks with the steel tracks Smile

2) Liability The combination of large (heavy) cargo and the value of the cargo makes it something that most shippers don't want to touch. I was talking with someone who handles liability for a shipping company and he said that his management would avoid that job like a plague. He said some 'weird loads' like that are done for the PR value (UPS or FedEx shipping animals or museum exhibits for example). He said the North Atlantic is especially troublesome for heavy delicate loads. (If you look at the 'plimsol markings' that all cargo vessels have to show how much freeboard they have 'Winter North Atlantic' requires the most freeboard which equates to the most reserve bouancy because of the rough conditions)

3) Tracking and security - you covered this pretty well

As I said a while back it was already sceduled to be transported on a C-5. The plane that crashed at Dover a while back was supposed to have brought it on the return flight of that trip to deliver equipment overseas. That crash and the subsequent fleet grounding until the cause was determined totally screwed up C-5 flight schedules for the forseeable future so it is a wait and see situation.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

hey bob,
who was surprised to find that the elephant had an electric trans??
the army (among other initials) has/have studied that exact elephant time on and time off for years. you would think that we, not just the u.s., would have developed such a "hybrid" by now. ya, es ist eine Porsche!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I have found tht most troops involved in day to day operations don't relly understand the history behind their profession. There are of course exceptions. The studies and evaluations were archived long ago and the current generation unerstands Diesels as old technology and turbines as new technology, but think of electric generators and motors as used in locomotives

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum