±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 573
Total: 573
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: News
03: Photo Gallery
04: Downloads
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Home
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Downloads
28: Home
29: Photo Gallery
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: CPGlang
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Your Account
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: News Archive
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: News Archive
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: News
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Downloads
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Your Account
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Member Screenshots
133: Photo Gallery
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: CPGlang
148: Community Forums
149: Statistics
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Member Screenshots
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Search
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Your Account
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: News
175: Home
176: Photo Gallery
177: News Archive
178: Photo Gallery
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: CPGlang
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: CPGlang
227: Downloads
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Your Account
241: Community Forums
242: Downloads
243: News Archive
244: Photo Gallery
245: Home
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Photo Gallery
262: Photo Gallery
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Treasury
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: News
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Photo Gallery
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: News Archive
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Statistics
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Downloads
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Photo Gallery
337: News
338: Downloads
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Photo Gallery
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Your Account
356: Downloads
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Downloads
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Your Account
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: CPGlang
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Photo Gallery
403: CPGlang
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Your Account
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Member Screenshots
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Photo Gallery
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Your Account
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Your Account
455: Your Account
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Your Account
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Member Screenshots
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Statistics
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Photo Gallery
490: Photo Gallery
491: Photo Gallery
492: News Archive
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Downloads
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Photo Gallery
511: CPGlang
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: News
531: News Archive
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Statistics
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: News Archive
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: CPGlang
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Downloads
558: Home
559: Your Account
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Home
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:17 am
Post subject: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

the military channel had the top ten tanks on (again?).
i know it is entertainment but i cant stand to watch much of it. his opinion is given on many of their programs, dr. ayer nusbacher, slammed the M1. slammed it over many of the other p.o.s. that made their list.
due to the logistics and he called it a "parade of softskin vehicles" to support the M1, he said taking it into battle is like "having one foot in a bucket". and having to support the tiger tank wasnt...
they put the T54 over the Merkava... they put the Mk1 as 4th...
the panther didnt even make the list...

i just dont get it....
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:50 am
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Where did the Sherman and the T34 end up? Did the M60 make the list? What about Centurion

Do you remember what their criteria was? Maybe we should run a thread where we come up with our own 'Top 10' using either their criteria or some other agreed on attributes.

I think I agree with the T54 over the Merkava, but it could depend on the criteria.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)


Last edited by bsmart on Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
oldertop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

The M4 was number 10 and the T34 number one, the placement was based on some strange scaled system. for some reason they have been harping on the fuel consumption of the M1 lately because of its turbine engine..oh ya and they list the range of the Tiger (they show pics of both I and II) at about 120 miles (there wasn't a Tiger operating during battlefield operation that got 90 miles on a full load of fuel, the docs I read (German) put it at a average range at 83 miles, which by the way was about the same the Marines were getting with the gasoline fueled 62.5 ton M103 heavy tank..who are these "experts" who think you should get great mileage from a heavy tank.
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Strictly for entertainment for sure. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

- bsmart
What about Centurian


I can hold it no longer, no offense Bob, it is CENTURION ... period!

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

When people pitch these kinds of shows to the networks there is always a push to offer something new and "edgy." History has to be revisited and some new overlooked deeper truth found. Even when military experts are used the experts have only seen most of the vehicles in action in archival films or at an event at Bovington or Saumur. They may know the history, but they seldom have an understanding of how the units that used the vehicles operated on a day to day basis. Veteran interviews are used for emotional "hooks" or to reinforce the preordained message.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

- Rikard_Hufschmied
- bsmart
What about Centurian


I can hold it no longer, no offense Bob, it is CENTURION ... period!


Noted and corrected. All I can say is that it was early and I was not fully awake (Don't tell my boss)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Like I said in the M113 thread, it's about how successful a vehicle is, not about how effective it is. The T34 was in service well into the 90s in some places, has fought in more wars than just about any tank, and was produced in vast numbers. It's not nearly equivalent to the Abrams in effectiveness, but it is one of the most important AFVs ever produced and was designed well enough to last well beyond the age it was designed for.
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Not to cause anymore grief, but this list leaves out one factor. The most important AFV. I would believe that the M4 chassis was more important than any other vehicle the US had at any time.

Giving it the number 10 nod was only by their rating system. If that was altered or changed the outcome would be completely different.
Back to top
View user's profile
oldertop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

If you look at it from "in uses" point of view..Why wouldn't the M48 be listed up there at the or near the top..after all the M60 was just a modfiyed and up-graded M48 not unlike the T54,55, and 62s and the M60 is still being used as a frontline main battletank to this day 60 years after its introduction. They argue that the M1 hasen't faced its equivalent in battle but yet they rate the Tiger that never fought its equal in armor and firepower, lease of all the M26 or any of the KV or JS, and the Tiger was never built in any great numbers, far less than the M1.
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

yes, i dont care for their faulty/contradicting criteria...
part of their judging scale is a "fear factor".
what did they use, they had 5 categories (?)... production rate, fear factor, armor/armament, innovation, ?
mechanical reliability should be on their list of criteria...
they graded on a big curve....

the centurion was number 5 or 6...
no pattons made the list...
the panzer IV was 7 (?)... over the M4 even considering its evolution into the Easy 8, etc.....

anyway, even though it got my feathers ruffled, it was entertaining!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

I guess the 'Fear Factor' is all about if you were in another tank.

I don't know about you, but if I were on foot I would just about fear any tank no matter how thick the armor was!
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

- SHAWN

the military channel had the top ten tanks on (again?).
slammed the M1. slammed it over many of the other p.o.s....
due to the logistics and he called it a "parade of softskin vehicles" to support the M1, he said taking it into battle is like "having one foot in a bucket".
i just dont get it....


Ever sense the M1 was fielded, it has NEVER been judged as THE BEST because of it's high fuel consumption. There is nothing new about that shows position on the Abrams.

Old news folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

On the other hand some have claimed it is the best in spite of its high fuel consumption. All depends on what you consider and how you weight the various factors.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum