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Collier County Museum Sherman
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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RayV
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Collier County Museum Sherman

The USA AFVs registry V2.9 lists this Sherman as an M4A3E8 Sherman Easy Eight (no posted SN), which is displayed outside of the Collier County Museum, Naples, FL. Would this be an M4A1 HVSS(76)?

What differentiates the M-1 Super Sherman from this tank, or are they basically the same?

Ray
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Hi Ray! Hi Folks!

- RayV

Would this be an M4A1 HVSS(76)?

What differentiates the M-1 Super Sherman from this tank, or are they basically the same?


You are correct. That vehicle is a M-4A1 76mm (HVSS) Sherman Tank. Sometimes called the M-4A1 76mm E8 or Easy 8 because of the HVSS.

In IDF service that type of vehicle was renumbered M-1 Sherman. The name "Super" was not (if I remember right) used with this vehicle. As the M-1, it was used for a number of years without any modifications and wore standard US Army OD paint.

If I remember right, the name "Super" was an international press name for the M-50/51 IDF vehicles which had a number of different upgrades. Not all upgrades shows up on all vehicles at any given time.

Hope this helps Ray.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Mon May 26, 2008 10:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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RayV
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Hi Roy,

Thanks for the help. Thanks also to Neil for putting together the fine AFV register. I passed through Naples, FL many a time, not knowing a Sherman was right in the neighborhood. I make it a point now to check the AFV register when I'm travelling, to see if there's some armor in the vicinity.

Ray
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:02 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

I was under the impression that it was more properly known as the M4A1E8 Sherman.

BTW ... any additional pictures of the rear end? Yours came out so clear and clean looking! Nice camera work.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

- JeffStringer
I was under the impression that it was more properly known as the M4A1E8 Sherman.

BTW ... any additional pictures of the rear end? Yours came out so clear and clean looking! Nice camera work.


Me too...I thought the M4A3E8 was the welded ("flat") hull and the cast hull on HVSS was the M4A1E8. Now I'm confused. (happens a lot Rolling Eyes )
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:50 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

It is, but it is confused with the earlier designation of the M4A1 76 (which is an A1 with the T-23 turret), so naturally everyone does the same for the M4A1E8 and spells out M4A1 76 HVSS, just like the M4A3 76 HVSS which is really the M4A3E8. Mr. Green
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RayV
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Attached is the rear shot of the Sherman. I had intentions of opening the gun port to take some shots inside, when I was greeted by many not-so-friendly wasps.

Ray
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:36 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Thanks so much!
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ChrisC
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Didn't the A1 and A3 designation have less to do with the hull, and more to do with the engine? A1's were radial and A3's were GAA V-8's?
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

ChrisC, the A1/A3 designation was based on the powerplant.
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clausb
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

- ChrisC
Didn't the A1 and A3 designation have less to do with the hull, and more to do with the engine? A1's were radial and A3's were GAA V-8's?


Hull and powerplant.

The M4 had a radial engine
So did the M4A1, but got a different designation because of the hull
M4A2 was somewhat like the M4 but with a diesel engine
M4A3 was somewhat like the M4 but with a V8 petrol engine
M4A4 had a 30 cylinder petrol engine and an elongated hull

IIRC the "E8" was reserved for the HVSS prototypes (M4E8, M4A1E8, M4A3E8 and M4A3E8) while the production models did not officially carry that label, being M4A1 76mm Gun, Wet Stowage, HVSS or something like that, M4A1 (76)W HVSS in abbreviated form.. They are commonly known as Easy-Eights, but I dont think that designation (or the E8 appendix) was ever put in a manual or stamped on the tank or its dataplate.

Other tanks with an "E" designation retained that as part of the official designation, like the M4A3E2 assault tank a.k.a. Jumbo Sherman.

75mm (and 105mm) armed Shermans rebuilt with 76mm guns in the 1950ies also kept their "E" designations. This dataplate is from one such vehicle in Yogoslavia (from the Sherman Register: web.inter.nl.net/users...tro76.htm)



Curiously, the M4A1s similarily converted and shipped to Pakistan were officially labelled M4A1E6.

My two ørers worth anyway Smile

Claus B
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

Thanks Claus for the clarification.
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clausb
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Collier County Museum Sherman

- clausb
IIRC the "E8" was reserved for the HVSS prototypes (M4E8, M4A1E8, M4A3E8 and M4A3E8) while the production models did not officially carry that label, being M4A1 76mm Gun, Wet Stowage, HVSS or something like that, M4A1 (76)W HVSS in abbreviated form.. They are commonly known as Easy-Eights, but I dont think that designation (or the E8 appendix) was ever put in a manual or stamped on the tank or its dataplate.


Turns out I was at least partially wrong on this one. In FM 17-12 "Tank Gunnery" of November 1950, there is one reference to the "M4A3E8 medium tank" (page 178).

cbo
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