±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 585
Total: 585
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Your Account
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Your Account
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Member Screenshots
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Downloads
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Downloads
63: Statistics
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Member Screenshots
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Member Screenshots
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: News
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: CPGlang
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Downloads
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: CPGlang
116: Community Forums
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Downloads
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Photo Gallery
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: CPGlang
163: Member Screenshots
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Your Account
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Your Account
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: CPGlang
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Photo Gallery
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Downloads
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Downloads
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Statistics
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: CPGlang
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Member Screenshots
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Your Account
254: Photo Gallery
255: Member Screenshots
256: Photo Gallery
257: Home
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: CPGlang
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Your Account
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: CPGlang
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Home
326: Your Account
327: Home
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Photo Gallery
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Your Account
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Downloads
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Home
398: Member Screenshots
399: Photo Gallery
400: Home
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: News
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Photo Gallery
413: Member Screenshots
414: Member Screenshots
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Statistics
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Home
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Your Account
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: CPGlang
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: CPGlang
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Downloads
507: Your Account
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Home
516: Photo Gallery
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Statistics
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Your Account
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Downloads
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Search
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Downloads
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Downloads
565: Community Forums
566: Downloads
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Your Account
573: Community Forums
574: Your Account
575: Home
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Home
580: Downloads
581: Home
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Downloads
585: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

The Panzer IV no. 14 (UniqueID 169) on that page is the tank we're talking about:

preservedtanks.com/Typ...p;Select=1

I took the identification of 'Ausf H' from Wheels and Tracks magazine, where it's covered in issue 30. However I should not have taken it at face value as I can see clearly now it is an Ausf J. I will make a correction on the website and in future editions of the Preserved German Tanks book.

- Doug_Kibbey
Can you give an angle of the rear that your looking specifically for (and example would be helpful)? I have 2-3 eye level views from various angles, or do you need a "top down view" of rear deck? Might not have that, but maybe something close.


The 'standard' Pz IV look, e.g. for Ausf G, H, etc. is a large horizontal exhaust silencer (muffler) on the rear plate, with a smaller silencer to the left of it:



A distinctive feature of the Ausf J was that this was removed, see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Saumur:

preservedtanks.com/Det...PhotoID=89

In very late production models, a completely new exhaust system was used with two vertical silencers (similar to the Panther or Tiger), see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Latrun:

preservedtanks.com/Det...otoID=1176

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

FINALLY, page two...I can post pics again. Laughing

Here is the bit you're looking for. Obvious bracketry for the silencer, but the bit itself is no longer present (I notice that the example at Saumur you cited lacks these brackets). Rough area on hull behind bracketry suggest to me that one was mounted at one time, mufflers are notorious for rusting out and quickly becoming unpresentable, besides, why would brackets be mounted if there was no intention to use them if simplification in manufacture was the point) Should come as no surprise, lots of bits are missing (what, for example, went in the tank that the curvy pieces to right supported? Whole tank is gone).

Also, though mismatched, the turret lacked the rear pistol ports I've seen in some versions. Also, closer inspection of the interior main gun pics seem to me to be lacking in something where gun enters mantlet. What is it that ain't there? (the diameter is not filling the mantlet opening)



*Edit to add....

Here's a interesting finding from a previous trip. Begs the question, is the reference to hull, turret, or both? Were some J's produced with silencers?....And when did fighting in Moldavia end?



...and since it's referenced on the plate, here's the engine, with one cam cover thoughtfully missing so we can appreciate the gear-driven SOHC (presumably with a gear train somewhat simpler than a Ford 427 "cammer").



Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:23 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Now that we're in a thread with piccie rights again, what's the significance of the number on this housing? And why, apart from needing to put together bits-and-pieces, would the track have solid and hollow center guides?



...and just for the heck of it, I didn't see any signs of the TC's azimuthal indicator doo-hickey. Probably lost to the parts bin of history...or wherever the muffler went.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

I agree it looks like there's a bracket for the auxiliary engine silencer, however it's a different shape to the standard bracket, plus I don't see any connection/pipework going to it, which you can see for the missing main silencer next to it (it sat in the 'curvy pieces'). I'm still thinking it was an Ausf J without a silencer, and some other item has been stowed in its place.

For identification I haven't considered the turret at all, since we know it was added later. Regarding a gap around the gun going into the mantlet - could it just indicate the gun hasn't fully returned from the recoil position (i.e. it's jammed?). Regarding the hollow track centre guides my guess would be the same as reducing the number of return rollers - just another way of reducing the amount of metal required.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Hi,
I agree that this is a Late J hull- the extended hull sides for tow hooks and the 3 return rollers are the clues. The straps on the rear do look like they are intended for the auxilliary muffler but there is no port in the rear hull- this should be visible or plated over. It also has late cast idler and late lower tow hook though this latter may have been added post war.

The casting number on the final drive housing is just that- a casting number referenced in some drawing from long ago. The mixture of track types is fairly common in late war vehicles and especially museum exhibits- you use the track at hand to outfit the exhibit. The hollow guide horns are earlier than the solid, by the way. Not sure whether this was to simplify the manufacturing process- as it seems counter intuitive to use more metal later in the war- or whether there was an issue with the hollow guidehorns collecting mud, ice, snow, etc.

The turret is another issue indeed....

Hope that helps
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Good stuff, guys. It seems fighting in Moldavia was going on well into 1944, see: "Jassy–Kishinev Offensive (August 1944)"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...1Dec44.jpg

I'll try to get some more pics up later, including main gun/battery and coax/bow MG shrouds from inside. Might be original, but damaged from careless visitors pulling or standing on (museum visitors do some strange things to artifacts, sometimes). They had a bent and squirrely look to them, especially the bow gun (which is more vulnerable to abuse by visitors).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce


Bruce,
Thanks, that's helpful! The tank might have been removed or fallen off when, as I notice in some of my closeups, the bracket welds have broken away from the hull at right bottom (I think it was).

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Yes - great picture, Bruce, that clears up any confusion.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here's the likely explanation for why the tank is no longer fitted (whatever it was for....it wasn't apparently deemed worthy of repair)

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Dontos
Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don


Don,
Great pics, whether yours or Garry's. Not surprisingly, some aspects of the Bucharest vehicle are in better condition (forward drivers' and RO compartments, drive system up there)...the results of not having the weather exposure of the APG vehicle...and other aspects are just...incomplete (no turret basket, no internal stowage bins to speak of, etc.). APG vehicle is more original and complete, but exposure took it's toll. Interior of Bucharest vehicle was better protected (what there is of it), but is far less complete/original. White paint exceeds the rust, however.

Of course, you can't restore what ain't there, and that's probably not in the budget anyway. Between the old AFV Interiors file (may it remain forever in our hearts and hard drives), Garry's pics, and the Bucharest vehicle...I've gotten a new appreciation for what the inside is supposed to be like. I have to say that in many ways, it's easier to relate to later Patton-series vehicles in spatial use than U.S. vehicles of the same period (that is to say, more "modern" in scale and layout than the M4's). It's possible now to imagine what a "new" one should look like inside...and I haven't even seen the more pristine examples out there.

I was standing on the hull floor, however, and don't have any feel for what the fighting compartment height is like with turret basket under your feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
... I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler...


It is actually the muffler for the auxiliary engine which turned the turret and this makes it an early J at the latest, since the auxiliary engine was dropped during the J-production run.



Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Jens - I think you need to reread the discussion, as we started with that idea but decided it wasn't the case. If you're aware of that, then we'd be interested in your reasoning.

Dontos, the FK Panzer IV has exactly the muffler where we would expect it since it is a much earlier vehicle:



A great set of pictures though!

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here is better view from AFTA website



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum