±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 554
Total: 554
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: CPGlang
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: CPGlang
12: Home
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Your Account
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: CPGlang
56: News
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Your Account
64: Photo Gallery
65: CPGlang
66: Downloads
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: CPGlang
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Photo Gallery
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: News
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Downloads
102: Photo Gallery
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Downloads
110: Downloads
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Member Screenshots
130: Photo Gallery
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Home
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: CPGlang
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Your Account
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Your Account
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Downloads
177: Photo Gallery
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Member Screenshots
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Downloads
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Statistics
210: Downloads
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: CPGlang
235: CPGlang
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Downloads
239: Your Account
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: CPGlang
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: CPGlang
250: Member Screenshots
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Downloads
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Your Account
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Your Account
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Member Screenshots
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: News
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Your Account
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Photo Gallery
367: Member Screenshots
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Downloads
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Downloads
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Photo Gallery
438: CPGlang
439: Photo Gallery
440: CPGlang
441: Downloads
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: CPGlang
465: Home
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: News
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Member Screenshots
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Home
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Statistics
492: Home
493: News
494: Photo Gallery
495: Home
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Statistics
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: CPGlang
510: Community Forums
511: Downloads
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Downloads
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Grizzly and Sexton Versions
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bialy-r
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 1233
Location: POLAND
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:33 am
Post subject: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Is that true that the early Sextons and Grizzlys where based or using parts/chassis of RAMs and where describe as Mk I.

Later it was change and Sextons and Grizzly used Grizzly program and could (Sexton for sure) be describe as Mk II.

I try to explain why one Grizzlys and Sextons have 17 gear main wheels other have 13 gear wheels.

Could I get a help with that.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Rafal,

The first batch of 125 Sexton are based on the Canadian Ram tank
The Ram tank itself was based on the automotive parts of the US M3 Lee
This version got the designation Sexton Mk I

The remaining Sexton vehicle's are based on the Canadian Grizzly tank
The Grizzly was based on the automotive parts of the US M4A1 Sherman
This version got the designation Sexton Mk II

There has not been an version of the Grizzly based on the Ram tank

see also Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tillery%29

The number of teeth differ because of the different type of track used.
The Grizzly tank used CDP type track that usen an 13 teeth sprocket

see also the following site
there is also an short description of the Grizzly type tank
mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/...Canada.htm


Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

So,

-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly).

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sexton IIs had stowage boxes & rails on the rear decks as well IIRC.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- the_shadock
-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly)


I did some research and it is an little more complicated then that

CDP stands for Canadian Dry pin and was only used and tanks that where build and used by the Canadian troops

However an lot of the Canadian Sexton's Mk II went to the Britsih army and most of these where re-fitted with the Sherman type of tracks

So to keep it simple

- CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks, of which 188 where build and all where used for training purpose

- on the Sexton we could find:
Sexton Mk I : Ram track (M3 Medium) for Canadian and British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP and Sherman track for British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP for Canadian vehicle's

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's



However the Canadian Ram II tank (with the real 75mm gun) uses CDP track

There is more info to be found on tracks at the Sherman Register
web.inter.nl.net/users...k_vvss.htm

And on the Canadian Ram
www.mapleleafup.org/ve...c/ram.html

I'm loosing track Laughing Laughing Laughing

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Michel_Krauss

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's


Michel


Popular misconception but thats a Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank - the dutch built two and the other is at Bovington


_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:39 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- JimWeb
Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank


Jim, I'm willing to believe you

however I have never heard of it and can not even find it....

What is the main difference between the two?
And where can I find some information about it??

Because, the general opinion is that it is an OP version
At least that is what the museum at Amersfoort is telling
And according Bovington the description is "Cruiser tank RAM Mk II" and that is not correct either

If it is realy an Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank
We also better tell P-O
Because it is listed as an Ram OP in the surviving Canadian & Australian list, just like the one in Bovington

I also found something else...
The one in Bovington is actualy an Dutch vehicle
On the following site, search for vehicle number "CT159418"
www.ramtank.ca/ram_mk2_5.htm

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:52 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O Mr. Green
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

You know, I wondered about that gun on the Amersfoort vehicle when I first saw it...now I understand that it's a dummy gun.

BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right, though both have 13 teeth. Is this usual or did they piece that together with whatever parts were available?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:36 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Doug_Kibbey
BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right


Thanks for telling, to be honest I never noticed that before

I do not know if this happend very often, however for this vehicle they most likely used what there was on stock

This is what I know about the Dutch armoured force's

It was founded in 1946 after the war
For equipment they recieved equipment thzt was "borrowed" from various British and Canadian vehicle depots in Holland

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's

In 1951 there where 141 listed in service (including 23 Firefly's operational) of which 50% was wreckage
The wreackage was used to keep the other tanks operational Shocked

This situation remained untill 1953 when they where replaced with Centurion tanks

However in 1959 there where still 131 Shermans listed, in various operational conditions

Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range

The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sherman-type sprockets were fully interchangeable throughout the use of the vehicle, so after a period of use you could see any combination.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

JimWeb wrote:
Popular misconception but thats a Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank - the dutch built two and the other is at Bovington


Jim, indeed it is a target tank, but they were NOT built by the Dutch. They were part of a batch of forty-four Rams delivered in 1947. Reportedly, four were Command/O.P. tanks, the rest were Ram IIs retrofitted with the British 75mm gun.
Ref. my web: See web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

We now know at least two were target training tanks, today many people think they are OP's.

The one at Bovington was at one time called "GIJS" (a Dutch boys name), and was exchanged for a Grizzly.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel


Michel,

The Ram at Mill is a Mk.II, the fact that it is fitted with the earlier bogie style does not make it a Mk.I

The Ram Mk.I had a 2-pdr gun, the Ram Mk.II had a 6-pdr gun. Manufacturing changes are not a unique differentiator between the two marks.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's
[snip]
Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range
The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies
Michel


Michel,

Not entirely correct – please see my web page at web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Hanno,

thanks for telling about the Kangaroo, I will change it in the list


However youre post about the Ram ETT Lit, also leaves an question

- Hanno_Spoelstra
and was exchanged for a Grizzly


Where did the Grizzly tank go Confused Confused Confused

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum