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1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:37 pm
Post subject: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Hi Folks!

Found this great photo over at Army Images. Lots of mud on those two vehicles! The near one has part of a mine plow system and the far one has a tow bar on the front.



Spot Report!
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Roy

The near tank has the 'bra' which is for use with mounting the mine roller.

It is a cool photo!

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jcneel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

I found it interesting that the tanks appear to painting in a multi color camoflauge rather than in overall tan. Althougth the mud nearly conceals it.

It is a cool photo.

later

cn
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Thats not mulit-color tans and browns. Its more than likely, spilled oil or water cans that collected dirt and stained. Also looks like they recently ran through some water/wet mud which is bleeding through the side plates. Thats just the dirt and grime of a combat enviroment. I've seen many like it in Kuwait and here at Fort Irwin during rotations. That picture is from "Army Images"? Is that the same as Army Knowledge On-line (AKO)? This was the cover picture for that site yesterday and today. I have noticed other pictures from Army Images posted here and they always are within a day of being seen on AKO. I'm on AKO every day, its where my military e-mail account is located.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

I just blew the picture up to 200% on photoshop and the near tank clearly shows on the turret stowage boxes green, black and brown going from left to right. The pattern shows up on the skirts as well. You can just make the black and green out on the background tank too.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

OK, you got me. I blew it up to and sure enough, there's woodland camo bleeding through, and here is why (my take why). Those tanks are from the 1st Armored Division located in Germany. They probably recieved a very thin coat of tan paint before heading to the middle east. This picture was taken in Tal Afar, Iraq. The closest tank has "Amber Lynne" painted on its cannon, so it must be an "A" Company tank. 1st Armored is supposed to be relocating to Ft Bliss, TX., per- the 2005 BRAC recommendation. I'm sure they'll get a better coat of tan "CARC" paint once they are back stateside. Here's a quick quiz/question that I know the answer to, how did the 1st armored get the nickname "OldIronsides"?

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Hey Folks!

The Army and the USMC has not bother to repaint most of the vehicles sent into Iraq starting with the first day of major combat.

Stop and think about the type of paint that is used now days and what has to be done to repaint a vehicle. That takes time and funding. With the type of combat that is going on in Iraq, it doesn't really matter what color a military vehicle is painted. Use what you have and save the cost of painting complete vehicles. Just wait and let the depots do that during the rebuild/upgrade (now called 'reset') phase of a vehicle's life.

If you go back to the later years of the Veitnam War, you will notice a lot of vehicles in need of painting. It's a waste of time and money most of the time during this type of warfare.

My take on painting military vehicles for this war.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:23 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Hello Roy,
A few questions about the tow bar, is this ''standard'' drill by M1 units on patrol in Iraq to have a towbar, and is this the same type of towbar which the recovery tank has?

I presume this is for towing a disabled comrade quick back to a saver place.

Why don't they use the towcables (safety regulations if the disabled tank can not use his brakes?)

The US tank force has a lot of experience now operating with tanks in an urban enviroment. The tankbattalions here are now training in urban warfare also but sometimes I personally have the feeling that we try to re-invent the wheel....... Maybe it something of pride that ''we'' not ask advice from somebody with experience.

Regards,
Lesley
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:30 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Lesley

The tow bar is the same used by ARVs. Each platoon has one or two, based on availability. This insures that a platoon or section can affect recovery (possibly underfire) without the ARV presence.

As for MOUT (urban warfare) training. I would imagine that 'lessons learned' in Iraq, are being circulated throughout all the professional circles. Its better to use the mistakes / successes of others to prepare for the future.

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panamadan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

1AD nickname came from the USS Constitution. Served with 1AD from '83-'88. Dan
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:26 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

- L.Delsing
Hello Roy,

Why don't they use the towcables (safety regulations if the disabled tank can not use his brakes?)

Regards,
Lesley


Hi Lesley! Hi Folks!

I think the rest of your questions have been address.

Having done it both ways, I would say using a tow bar, if available, provides more control over the dead vehicle via using tow cables. Tow cables are good for very short moves, but anything with some distance plus being inside a city, I would go with a tow bar.

My 2 cents based on towing M114s, M113s, M551s.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Here is the answer for how the 1st Armored Div got it's nickname. "Panamaden", got it right but here is the detailed version.
Soon after the activation of the 1st Armored Division at Fort Knox on July 15, 1940, its first commander, Major General Bruce R. Magruder, began searching for an appropriate nickname for the division. In 1941 General George S. Patton Jr. had just named his 2nd Armored Division "Hell on Wheels" and everyone thought that the 1st Armored Division needed a name too. General Bruce Magruder, the Commander of the 1st Armored Division, announced a contest to find a suitable name for his Division. Approximately 200 names were submitted including "Fire and Brimstone" and "Kentucky Wonders." The General took them home to study over the weekend but failed to find any that appealed to him. While mulling the matter over, he happened to glance at a picture of the U.S.S. Constitution that he had bought during a drive for funds for the preservation of that famous fighting ship known as "Old Ironsides." That ended the search for a name. Impressed with the parallel between the early development of the tank and the Navy's "Old Ironsides" spirit of daring and durability he decided the 1st Armored Division should also be named "Old Ironsides." Thus a famous warship of the US Navy and the famous 1st Armored Division of the US Army are historically and appropriately welded by name "Old Ironsides."

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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:58 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

Hello Don and Roy,
Interesting those towbars in a platoon. I will ask about it here, the only problem is that in our unit only the recovery tank is authorised for a tow bar and I think they cost some euro's..... So filling in a form with a NSN for 3 extra towbars will ring some bells at brigade level.....

About the lessons learned, I really hope there is some form of cooperation. But until this moment I've seen only one written NL document about operating with tanks in a MOUT enviroment which was written by a good willing NCO which was ordered to think and write something about it.

Unfortunately a lot of info from higher level don't come through at the company or even battalion level.

Regards,
Lesley
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

- L.Delsing


About the lessons learned, I really hope there is some form of cooperation. But until this moment I've seen only one written NL document about operating with tanks in a MOUT enviroment which was written by a good willing NCO which was ordered to think and write something about it.

Unfortunately a lot of info from higher level don't come through at the company or even battalion level.

Regards,
Lesley


Hi Lesley! Hi Folks!

Hey Lesley, would suggest reading "Heavy Metal, A Tank Company Battle To Baghdad. Written by a Tank Company Commander. One of the tank companies that made the left hooking desert run up to Baghdad and made the two thunder runs throught town.

May not be the best, but it make be helpful. Some tank on tank but a lot of tankers having to do things that normally infantry or MP would have done if there had been enough to go around.

Lesley, if it is not available to you localy, contact me via privite messages and I will mail you a copy.

ISBN 1-57488-856-0
by Capt. Jason Conroy, USA, with Ron Martz
Potomac Books, Inc. 22841, Quicksilver Drive
Dulles, Virginia 20166

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:33 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division Abrams on Patrol

- SFC_Jeff_Button

That picture is from "Army Images"? Is that the same as Army Knowledge On-line (AKO)? This was the cover picture for that site yesterday and today. I have noticed other pictures from Army Images posted here and they always are within a day of being seen on AKO. I'm on AKO every day, its where my military e-mail account is located.


Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

AKO is a User ID/Password protected system with some low level classified data.
Army Images is part of the DOD Unclassified public information site.

For the main DOD site you can go to:

www.defenselink.mil

Or go directly to the U.S. Army site at:

www.army.mil

You can find the link to images along the left side under 'Army News' forth item down.

The DOD site has also has an image site with photos from all DOD elements. There is a 'Website' link to a page with links to the individual serivces' websites plus just about all things under DOD like the latest Budget reports.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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