±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 561
Total: 561
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: News Archive
26: Community Forums
27: Downloads
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: News Archive
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Photo Gallery
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: News
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: CPGlang
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Member Screenshots
75: Community Forums
76: Statistics
77: News
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: News Archive
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: News Archive
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Downloads
125: Photo Gallery
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: CPGlang
133: Photo Gallery
134: Downloads
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Your Account
142: Home
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Statistics
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: CPGlang
157: Statistics
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: CPGlang
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Statistics
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: News
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: News
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Photo Gallery
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Member Screenshots
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Your Account
245: Home
246: CPGlang
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: CPGlang
250: Home
251: Downloads
252: Home
253: Your Account
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Downloads
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: CPGlang
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Your Account
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Photo Gallery
301: Your Account
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Member Screenshots
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: News Archive
327: Downloads
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Photo Gallery
334: Home
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: CPGlang
346: Downloads
347: Downloads
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: CPGlang
355: Your Account
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Member Screenshots
364: Community Forums
365: Downloads
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Downloads
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Home
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Photo Gallery
380: CPGlang
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: CPGlang
387: News Archive
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Members List
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Photo Gallery
403: Downloads
404: Photo Gallery
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Statistics
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Downloads
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Downloads
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Your Account
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Member Screenshots
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Home
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Your Account
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Your Account
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Your Account
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Member Screenshots
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: News
513: Community Forums
514: Your Account
515: CPGlang
516: Downloads
517: CPGlang
518: Community Forums
519: CPGlang
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Downloads
527: Downloads
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Member Screenshots
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Home
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: CPGlang
560: Community Forums
561: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

I went to the III Corp HQ's parade field today and shot some pics of this Sherman there. This makes three M4's with the T66 metal track here at Ft Hood. Most of the numbers are readable in the pictures, but the rear tow lugs had 61587 stamped into them. The front top hull had 264, 1062958, CP8950, stamped into it. I believe this to be a Chrysler built Sherman due to the guidance of Joe DeMarco and where to find certain markings, such as the B3229 stamped into the side edge of the hull armor. As more information becomes known, I will keep you posted. I will soon post an information sheet of all the known Shermans here at Ft Hood once I get all the data compiled.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:06 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Here is what I have on this particular Sherman per Joe DeMarco. This is a Chrysler built M4A3 (76)HVSS, built in January 1945. Corresponding reg number would have been 30114609. This would have been about the 3242 built tank (ballpark number).
The reg number stamped into the lower hull (30114359), below the white star, was the first time Joe had seen one in this location. He assumes it came from another Sherman. That Shermans serial number would have been 61337.
The stamped number above the pistol port on the turret (18041090) tells us the turret was cast by Continental Steel (H in a C). 1804 is the heat treat number of the turret while 1090 should be the turrets serial number.
Joe explains all the other markings but I'll save those for the museum staff. Joe makes me look pretty darn smart, but I have to give him all the credit. But at the same time, I'm learning and am putting together my own guide on research of Shermans. Who knows, I may become the next "Joe DeMarco" for the next generation of Sherman enthusists. I still have a long way to go though!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:52 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

The turret top detail is interesting. When they filled the smoke mortar port, they sure did a sloppy job. Some of them were done so neatly that you can hardly tell that it was there.
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:56 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Is that the area right above the mantlet? What exactly is a smoke Mortar port?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Is that the area right above the mantlet? What exactly is a smoke Mortar port?


Starting in mid to late 1943, Shermans were produced with a British designed, two inch smoke mortar in the turret. It was mounted in the left side of the turret and protruded through an opening in the roof. Post war, they were removed and the openings were filled in.


_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

This will sound stupid, but to me, a Mortar fires a projectile. Am I to understand that this was an early smoke devise or merely an exit tube for smoke and gases to escape the inside when "buttoned-up"?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Jeff, I believe the mortar launched smoke grenades.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

Here are two photos cropped from Hunnicutt's Sherman book. Top one is from page 263 and bottom one is from page 152
In the data sheets, Hunnicutt calls it: "2 inch Mortar M3 (smoke) fixed in turret"





This is Jeff's photo of the M-4 105 How tank. That big hole in the turret roof to the right of and down in front of the loader's periscope is the openning for the 2 inch smoke mortar.


Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Perhaps a dumb question, but wouldnt that let shrapnel, even the odd MG round perhaps in? A really audacious infantryman might try to drop a grenade in...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Perhaps a dumb question, but wouldnt that let shrapnel, even the odd MG round perhaps in? A really audacious infantryman might try to drop a grenade in...
Neil


Shrapnel - Yes, but back when the smoke mortar was added, air burst artillery shells had not been fielded yet. Look at that cover for the openning for the loader's periscope, it does more to keep out rain that it does to keep out shrapnel.

The odd MG round - Possibly, but not very likely. I would think that a round going in the opennings for the direct sights and the co-ax machine gun holes would have a better chance.

The audacious infantryman - that is why tanks DON'T work alone.
If they do, then that audacious infantryman is going to get them.

My 2 cents.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

The Brits called it the "2-inch Bombthrower" and were still mounting it in Centurions in the 1950ies. The Germans came up with something similar (perhaps from British inspiration?), the Nahverteidigungswaffe, mounted in the roof of most German tanks from 1944 onwards.

The Germans tried smoke grenade dischargers mounted on the side of the turret, but they tended to go off when hit by enemy fire, smoke getting sucked into the tank creating a miserably enviroment form the crew. They were also impossible to reload from the inside.
The Brits also used such dischargers mounted on the side of the turret early in the war (inspiring the Germans?), then they apperently went out of fashion in favour of the 2-inch Bombthrower only to be re-introduced on British tanks after the war, early Centurions having both smoke devices.

Not really sure what the Americans did? AFAIK they didn't use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers in WWII and while they did adopt the British 2-inch weapon, they apparently got rid of it soon after the war. What did they use before and until they began to use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers long after WWII (1960ies?)?

Niel, the hole is only about 2", so a handgrenade wouldn't fit, I think. Also, whatever went into the hole would be stopped by the weapon mounted there, so it seems highly unlikely that anything entering the hole would actually make it into the turret proper.

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Claus! Hi Folks!

- clausb

Not really sure what the Americans did? AFAIK they didn't use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers in WWII and while they did adopt the British 2-inch weapon, they apparently got rid of it soon after the war. What did they use before and until they began to use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers long after WWII (1960ies?)?


1. Tank Battalion 4.2 inch Mortar platoon of four tubes.
2. Any available division artillery support.
3. Smoke pots inplaced by Smoke Engineers units or Battalion Scouts. I did that during a couple of FTXs in Germany.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

I think the US tankers relied more on smoke ammo from the 75 or 76mm guns than the 2" smoke mortar. One source reported that when the smoke mortar was used the Germans tended to fire into the smoke and the infantry around the tank didn't appreciate that one bit! I'm not sure how effective the mortar was at creating an effective screen, maybe the US crews weren't using it as designed?

The US tank battalion organized under the 1943 TO&Es also gave the battalion commander an additional asset - the battalion mortar platoon. There were three M4/M4A1 (later M21) halftrack 81mm mortar carriers authorized to each battalion and the FM mentions that the primary mission was to fire smoke rounds for screeening.

I have a xerox of an Ordnance Techical Bulletin dated right after VE day that mentions that the 2" smoke mortar was considered obsolete. The weapons and ammo were to be discarded. The mounts and ammo boxes were to be removed from the tanks (M4-series, M24, etc.). The holes in the turret were to be filled by either a) welding in a plug cut to fit, or b) be filled by welding. Some depots did it so cleanly that one can't tell there was ever a hole, others did "good enough".

The smoke mortars ports were seen on the later 75mm turrets (starting in 1943), all the 105mm turrets, and all (?) of the 76mm turrets. Some castings had a small lip around the opening.

With all this talk of THOUSANDS of baby mortars for each US tank, plus the battalions 81mm mortars, I can almost hear Jeff Button drooling with excitement!

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum