±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 686
Total: 686
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Member Screenshots
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Your Account
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: CPGlang
18: CPGlang
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Downloads
24: News
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: News
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Downloads
32: Downloads
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Member Screenshots
41: Your Account
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Search
45: Photo Gallery
46: CPGlang
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: News
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Statistics
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Downloads
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: CPGlang
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Member Screenshots
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: CPGlang
111: Photo Gallery
112: News
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Statistics
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Downloads
135: News
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Downloads
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: CPGlang
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Downloads
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: CPGlang
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Downloads
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Your Account
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Downloads
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Your Account
180: Home
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Photo Gallery
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Photo Gallery
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Your Account
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Member Screenshots
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: CPGlang
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: News
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Member Screenshots
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Photo Gallery
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: News
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: News
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: CPGlang
279: Community Forums
280: CPGlang
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Statistics
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: News
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: News
308: Photo Gallery
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Photo Gallery
316: News
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: News
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Photo Gallery
325: Downloads
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Home
332: Your Account
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: News
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Home
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Member Screenshots
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Home
347: Photo Gallery
348: Photo Gallery
349: Home
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Member Screenshots
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: News
372: Photo Gallery
373: Home
374: Photo Gallery
375: Statistics
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: News
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: News
395: Downloads
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: News
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: News
410: Home
411: Home
412: Home
413: Home
414: Home
415: CPGlang
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: CPGlang
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: News
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Member Screenshots
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Home
453: Home
454: Photo Gallery
455: Photo Gallery
456: News
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Downloads
460: Photo Gallery
461: News Archive
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Downloads
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Downloads
470: Member Screenshots
471: Photo Gallery
472: Home
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Your Account
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Photo Gallery
483: Photo Gallery
484: Member Screenshots
485: Photo Gallery
486: Downloads
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Your Account
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: CPGlang
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Downloads
502: CPGlang
503: CPGlang
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Your Account
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Home
518: Photo Gallery
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Your Account
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Member Screenshots
526: Member Screenshots
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Photo Gallery
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: CPGlang
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Statistics
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: CPGlang
551: Community Forums
552: Member Screenshots
553: Downloads
554: Community Forums
555: Member Screenshots
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Home
569: Member Screenshots
570: Home
571: Your Account
572: Photo Gallery
573: Downloads
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Your Account
577: Community Forums
578: Member Screenshots
579: Community Forums
580: News Archive
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: News
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: News
593: Member Screenshots
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Your Account
597: Home
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Community Forums
605: News
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Home
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Photo Gallery
618: Community Forums
619: Your Account
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: News
623: Home
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Downloads
632: Community Forums
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: Photo Gallery
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Photo Gallery
645: Photo Gallery
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Downloads
656: Member Screenshots
657: Member Screenshots
658: Home
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Member Screenshots
662: Home
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Statistics
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Photo Gallery
672: Community Forums
673: Photo Gallery
674: Photo Gallery
675: Downloads
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Downloads
684: Photo Gallery
685: Community Forums
686: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Preserved Tanks in Brazil
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:54 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back.

- vmmv1
The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc


Absolutely! Any information and pictures much appreciated.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti
- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles...


I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716


Since getting back from holiday I've been working on identifying and tracking down the Stuarts from Brazil, starting with the two highlighted by Massimo (see the relevant country threads). In addition I have identified and partly tracked another 10 or so. I have updated the two locations with information and pictures from a correspondent in Brazil, Paulo Bidoli:

Itupeva

Bragança Paulista



- more details to follow on the other Stuarts

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

My trip to Brazil has been brought forward so I'll soon be off the forum for a week.

- the_shadock
Trevor,

I would be glad to get some photos from you if you are lucky enough to get access to the tanks during your visit (most of them are located on military bases).

I would be curious to get photos from the Sherman tanks too, especially from small hatches versions.

P-O


P-O, I'll bear that in mind. If I get to any military bases, though, I only expect to be able to take photos from outside the perimeter.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O


Thanks for that, I'll follow that up soon.

In the meantime the first pictures from my Brazil trip are online (68 pictures, 4 tanks):


Unique ID 860: L3-35, Linhares




Unique ID 1053: Renault FT, Linhares




Unique ID 1815: M3 Stuart, Linhares




Unique ID 1733: M3A3 Lee, Linhares

[img]http:///PreservedTanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/IMG-6224_M3Lee_Linhares_AArchive_c.jpg[/img]

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.


Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.


Meanwhile, I've added some more pictures and info:


Unique ID 1390: M4 HST, Linhares




Unique ID 1514: M5 HST, Linhares




If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.



Unique ID 1727: M41B, Linhares




To give background to the M41B I have written up Bernardini, the upgraders:

Location 37580: Bernardini, Sao Paulo


_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.



I think the dynamic is basically that it's always safer to say "No", unless you're the boss, because nobody is going to chew your enlisted or junior officer butt out for being cautious, whereas there is no upside to saying "Yes"...the only thing that can happen is that maybe they won't get into trouble. I know you're a seasoned traveler, but I generally always had the advantage of some local work or scientific/medical colleagues who both always spoke the local language and sometimes "knew a guy who knew a guy".

It took me three tries to get in at the 5th RCC in Rio Negro. Twice to get into the MkIV at Bucharest and once to get a personal tour of Parola by the commandant. Each time was due to a local contact who made some calls. The offer of any museum or library gift items you can exchange doesn't hurt either.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.


Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
valls
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Rio de Janeiro - BRASIL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Both are Vickers Armstrong 7.2 in howitzers used by Brasilan Army heavy artillery units.

JAValls
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O


Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:43 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).


Trevor,

according to Joe DeMarco, it is possible that PCF transitioned from "blocky" lifting rings to regular cast lifting rings in January or February 1943. If it is true, the tank located at Linhares was manufactured between January and November 1943, we could exclude a manufacture of that tank in 1942.

The turret is not original to that thank. It is a "high bustle" turret (part number D78461), usually found on large hatches M4A3(75) W. You can see a description of this particular turrets there :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/turret_types.html

This turret was either placed on the tank during wartime, or maybe after the war by the Brazilians, for an unknown reason, but it is not the turret the tank had when it left the factory.

Indeed, this turret was built by PSF in Novembre 1944. I think that there is a typo in Kurt's "foundry markings PDF file". I've already seen Sherman turrets with similar markings, and dated 8-43, or 6-43. Here is an example :




P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Another quick note :

the cast lifting rings that can be seen on the tank at Linhares are not characteristic of PCF-made M4A1s.

Only the "blocky" lifting rings found on earlier PCF-made tanks are particular to Pacific Car & Foundry, here is an example :


The later "cast" lifting rings can be seen on other manufacturer"s tanks, like on Chrysler-made M4A4s, M4A3s and M4s for example :


so this is not a distinctive feature of a PCF-made tank. However, this is a distinctive featuer of a later PCF-made tank, given that the "blocky" lifting rings were probably replaced by the cast lifting rings in January or February 1943.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 3 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum