±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 652
Total: 652
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Statistics
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: CPGlang
16: Your Account
17: Community Forums
18: CPGlang
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: CPGlang
24: Your Account
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Downloads
28: Photo Gallery
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Member Screenshots
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Downloads
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: News
47: Community Forums
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Home
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: Community Forums
64: CPGlang
65: Your Account
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Member Screenshots
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Your Account
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Member Screenshots
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Your Account
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Member Screenshots
116: Downloads
117: Member Screenshots
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Statistics
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Photo Gallery
141: Member Screenshots
142: Photo Gallery
143: CPGlang
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: News
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Your Account
164: Photo Gallery
165: News Archive
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Downloads
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Downloads
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Downloads
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Home
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Member Screenshots
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Your Account
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Statistics
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Your Account
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Your Account
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: News
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: News Archive
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: News
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: News
305: CPGlang
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Your Account
327: Community Forums
328: News Archive
329: Statistics
330: Downloads
331: Photo Gallery
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Photo Gallery
351: CPGlang
352: Member Screenshots
353: Statistics
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Photo Gallery
361: Statistics
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Home
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Member Screenshots
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Member Screenshots
394: Community Forums
395: CPGlang
396: Photo Gallery
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Your Account
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Member Screenshots
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Your Account
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Photo Gallery
428: Photo Gallery
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Your Account
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Downloads
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Member Screenshots
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Photo Gallery
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Your Account
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Downloads
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: News Archive
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: CPGlang
498: Community Forums
499: Downloads
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Your Account
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Photo Gallery
528: Home
529: Your Account
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Member Screenshots
541: Community Forums
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Home
546: Your Account
547: Community Forums
548: CPGlang
549: CPGlang
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Photo Gallery
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: CPGlang
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Statistics
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Photo Gallery
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Statistics
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: CPGlang
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Photo Gallery
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Member Screenshots
615: Community Forums
616: Member Screenshots
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Downloads
625: Your Account
626: Community Forums
627: Downloads
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Downloads
635: Community Forums
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Downloads
641: Photo Gallery
642: Photo Gallery
643: CPGlang
644: Community Forums
645: Photo Gallery
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: Your Account
652: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Preserved Tanks in Brazil
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:54 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back.

- vmmv1
The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc


Absolutely! Any information and pictures much appreciated.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti
- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles...


I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716


Since getting back from holiday I've been working on identifying and tracking down the Stuarts from Brazil, starting with the two highlighted by Massimo (see the relevant country threads). In addition I have identified and partly tracked another 10 or so. I have updated the two locations with information and pictures from a correspondent in Brazil, Paulo Bidoli:

Itupeva

Bragança Paulista



- more details to follow on the other Stuarts

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

My trip to Brazil has been brought forward so I'll soon be off the forum for a week.

- the_shadock
Trevor,

I would be glad to get some photos from you if you are lucky enough to get access to the tanks during your visit (most of them are located on military bases).

I would be curious to get photos from the Sherman tanks too, especially from small hatches versions.

P-O


P-O, I'll bear that in mind. If I get to any military bases, though, I only expect to be able to take photos from outside the perimeter.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O


Thanks for that, I'll follow that up soon.

In the meantime the first pictures from my Brazil trip are online (68 pictures, 4 tanks):


Unique ID 860: L3-35, Linhares




Unique ID 1053: Renault FT, Linhares




Unique ID 1815: M3 Stuart, Linhares




Unique ID 1733: M3A3 Lee, Linhares

[img]http:///PreservedTanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/IMG-6224_M3Lee_Linhares_AArchive_c.jpg[/img]

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.


Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey
Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.


Meanwhile, I've added some more pictures and info:


Unique ID 1390: M4 HST, Linhares




Unique ID 1514: M5 HST, Linhares




If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.



Unique ID 1727: M41B, Linhares




To give background to the M41B I have written up Bernardini, the upgraders:

Location 37580: Bernardini, Sao Paulo


_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum


The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.



I think the dynamic is basically that it's always safer to say "No", unless you're the boss, because nobody is going to chew your enlisted or junior officer butt out for being cautious, whereas there is no upside to saying "Yes"...the only thing that can happen is that maybe they won't get into trouble. I know you're a seasoned traveler, but I generally always had the advantage of some local work or scientific/medical colleagues who both always spoke the local language and sometimes "knew a guy who knew a guy".

It took me three tries to get in at the 5th RCC in Rio Negro. Twice to get into the MkIV at Bucharest and once to get a personal tour of Parola by the commandant. Each time was due to a local contact who made some calls. The offer of any museum or library gift items you can exchange doesn't hurt either.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares




P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.


Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
valls
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Rio de Janeiro - BRASIL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).


Both are Vickers Armstrong 7.2 in howitzers used by Brasilan Army heavy artillery units.

JAValls
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock
Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O


Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:43 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum
Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).


Trevor,

according to Joe DeMarco, it is possible that PCF transitioned from "blocky" lifting rings to regular cast lifting rings in January or February 1943. If it is true, the tank located at Linhares was manufactured between January and November 1943, we could exclude a manufacture of that tank in 1942.

The turret is not original to that thank. It is a "high bustle" turret (part number D78461), usually found on large hatches M4A3(75) W. You can see a description of this particular turrets there :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/turret_types.html

This turret was either placed on the tank during wartime, or maybe after the war by the Brazilians, for an unknown reason, but it is not the turret the tank had when it left the factory.

Indeed, this turret was built by PSF in Novembre 1944. I think that there is a typo in Kurt's "foundry markings PDF file". I've already seen Sherman turrets with similar markings, and dated 8-43, or 6-43. Here is an example :




P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Another quick note :

the cast lifting rings that can be seen on the tank at Linhares are not characteristic of PCF-made M4A1s.

Only the "blocky" lifting rings found on earlier PCF-made tanks are particular to Pacific Car & Foundry, here is an example :


The later "cast" lifting rings can be seen on other manufacturer"s tanks, like on Chrysler-made M4A4s, M4A3s and M4s for example :


so this is not a distinctive feature of a PCF-made tank. However, this is a distinctive featuer of a later PCF-made tank, given that the "blocky" lifting rings were probably replaced by the cast lifting rings in January or February 1943.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 3 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum