±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 729
Total: 729
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: News Archive
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Your Account
69: Photo Gallery
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Your Account
79: CPGlang
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Downloads
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Photo Gallery
125: Your Account
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Home
162: News Archive
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: News Archive
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Downloads
233: Statistics
234: Member Screenshots
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: CPGlang
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Downloads
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: CPGlang
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Your Account
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Downloads
279: CPGlang
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Member Screenshots
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Member Screenshots
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Downloads
303: Community Forums
304: Search
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Member Screenshots
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Member Screenshots
338: Photo Gallery
339: Photo Gallery
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Home
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: CPGlang
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: CPGlang
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Your Account
414: Downloads
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: News
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: CPGlang
448: Community Forums
449: CPGlang
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Your Account
455: Your Account
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Home
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Tell a Friend
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Your Account
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Home
485: Statistics
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Your Account
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Community Forums
538: Statistics
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: CPGlang
569: Photo Gallery
570: CPGlang
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Photo Gallery
589: Downloads
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Your Account
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: CPGlang
603: Your Account
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Your Account
611: Downloads
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: CPGlang
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Photo Gallery
622: Member Screenshots
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: CPGlang
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Member Screenshots
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Photo Gallery
655: Member Screenshots
656: Home
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Photo Gallery
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: CPGlang
668: Your Account
669: Photo Gallery
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Statistics
675: Member Screenshots
676: CPGlang
677: Community Forums
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: Downloads
684: Home
685: Photo Gallery
686: Community Forums
687: Photo Gallery
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Home
698: Supporters
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Photo Gallery
702: Community Forums
703: Photo Gallery
704: Community Forums
705: Photo Gallery
706: Photo Gallery
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Photo Gallery
711: Community Forums
712: Downloads
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Your Account
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Downloads
721: Community Forums
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Home
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Your Account
729: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:48 pm
Post subject: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

I was going through Port Deposit, MD and stopped at the VFW to photograph this donation from Aberdeen Proving Ground. It definately was a range target and clearly shows numerous hits. Serial number 1040. Rick


Last edited by Rick_Eshleman on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

More photos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

At first glance, the C on the rear plate seems to confirm that it is indeed an M48C. However, Geoffrey Tillotson mentions that the C was embossed on the right front side of the hull (typo?), while Hunnicutt provides photographic evidence (more here) that ballistically unsound tanks dedicated to the training role were conspicuously marked on the glacis between the headlight guards as NON-BALLISTIC TRAINING TANKS ONLY (variation: TRAINING TANK NON-BALLISTIC). Said welded warning seems to be absent from the tank in your pictures.
Could it be a variation of the M48C marking system, or something else entirely?

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.


Last edited by Costas_TT on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Costas,
I saw several early M48C tanks at the M88 recovery range(in the 1980's), some had a welded warning, others did not. If you read page 114 "US Military Vehicles, by Fred Crismon "120 early M48's had hulls that were ballistically deficient, and were designated M48C tanks for training only" but not mentioned is did they all have the warning weld on the hull? This Tank is SER 79, so it would fall into the first 120 built, and you're right it has no warning weld. Best way to check this out would be get permission to enter the tank, check data plate. Let me know what you think. Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

All sources mention 120 early production (i.e. Chrysler TC cupola and small driver's hatch) M48s, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were the first 120 tanks produced. Of the three authors (Hunnicutt, Crismon and Tillotson), the latter postulates that mild steel might have been used and the tanks intended for training from the start - obviously contradicting the other two, who clearly mention that these early hulls were "ballistically deficient". The problem is that the specific batch, serial ranges and all, is not identified.
And then there is this:

Note serial number visible under MG cradle and ammo box...

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

BREAKING NEWS: I now have definitive proof that the C in the octagon did not apply to the M48C specifically. We know for a fact that all M48C tanks were retained stateside, correct?
Now, check out this photo of a Greek M48.

Circled in red for convenience.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Then there is the Aberdeen Proving Ground "Frankenstein" Tank. I found these all around the base. Ordnance school was great with these. They remove the turret, then later place it onto same model hull, but a different tank! The most prominent example of this was the M60A3 TTS which was displayed in the field during the 1990s!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:57 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

So, Serial Number 79 is an APG Franken-Tank?

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

The "C" inside the octagon is not a designator for M48C or even related to the serial number.

What you have is the foundry's casting number/data for that particular piece they made. The "SER" refers to the series of castings made. So you will find the same number on different tanks. M48's castings were made by numerous foundries and this particular marking belongs to American Steel from East Chicago Indiana from the 1950's. Depending on who made the casting the hull could be in sections welded together or as one piece with the floor plates welded in. The M48C deficiency was in the upper hull by the driver's vision blocks, being the armor was too thin there. Externally the difference between M48 and M48C are none (I haven't found one yet) other than the bead weld warning across the front, since the only correction was in the casting process and it only applies to the hull.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

It might be a "frankentank", only way to find out would be to check the hull and turret plates to see if they match. I did dig out my M48 files, particularly TM9-500 page 23-26 where it is stated: "The M48C is similar in appearance to the M48. The difference being in the strength of the armored hulls. The M48C is not suitable for combat and is to be used for training purposes only. The letter "C" is embossed in the right front hull meaning the tank is "non-ballistic.". The M48C was also classified as Limited Standard at the time.
I also note page 103 of Hunnicut's book where "120 tanks with ballistically deficient hull castings" is mentioned and the photo mentioning the wording doesn't match the weld metal marking. So maybe some were marked properly and others not? It would be interesting to find out if all were sequentally built 1-120, or if they were just groups erratically produced?
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

The wording originally specified was "NON-BALLISTIC TRAINING TANK ONLY".
The non-matching wording was "TRAINING TANK NON-BALLISTIC", as seen in the photo on the link I posted and the picture in Hunnicutt's book.
And in all the excitement I forgot the difference between serial and casting numbers. Thanks go to Joe for the correction.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:56 am
Post subject: Re: M48C Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

I got [tank] SN 1040 off the front tow lugs - always the first place to look.

The turret on this tank was also an ASF-C product, unfortunately the serial was obliterated by glancing fragment or projectile hit.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Kurt,
M48 Tank it is. I couldn't find the SN on front tow hook, but did find it on the rear of the tank. I didn't have time today to climb in to see the manufacture plates, but maybe next trip. I looked all over front for "C" stamping, or weld(none found), so i must be a regular production model. Thanks, Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Rick_Eshleman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Lewes, Delaware, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Medium Tank. Port Deposit, MD.

Since Ser = series, I guess this would mean the M48A1 tank at Oak Orchard, DE has a different SN? I looked at tow lugs and rear left hull but paint is too thick to see any numbers. Photos from the other day. Rick
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail AIM Address Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum