±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 737
Total: 737
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Downloads
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: CPGlang
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Your Account
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Your Account
17: Downloads
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Member Screenshots
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Downloads
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Your Account
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: News
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Member Screenshots
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: CPGlang
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: News Archive
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: News
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Downloads
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Statistics
153: CPGlang
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Your Account
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Downloads
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Member Screenshots
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Statistics
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Member Screenshots
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Statistics
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Member Screenshots
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Photo Gallery
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Downloads
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: CPGlang
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Downloads
257: Community Forums
258: Downloads
259: Photo Gallery
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Downloads
269: Community Forums
270: Your Account
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: News Archive
280: Photo Gallery
281: Downloads
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: CPGlang
294: Member Screenshots
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Downloads
315: CPGlang
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Home
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Photo Gallery
325: Photo Gallery
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Photo Gallery
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: CPGlang
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Downloads
361: Photo Gallery
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Your Account
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Downloads
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Statistics
386: Home
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Member Screenshots
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: CPGlang
394: Member Screenshots
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Photo Gallery
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Downloads
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: CPGlang
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Your Account
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Downloads
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Photo Gallery
435: Photo Gallery
436: Downloads
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Downloads
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Your Account
458: News Archive
459: Downloads
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Downloads
487: Home
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Downloads
496: Downloads
497: Member Screenshots
498: Statistics
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Downloads
510: Home
511: Your Account
512: Community Forums
513: Your Account
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: News Archive
519: Downloads
520: Photo Gallery
521: News Archive
522: Your Account
523: Home
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Your Account
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Home
537: Home
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: News
541: Community Forums
542: Your Account
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Your Account
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Downloads
550: Statistics
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Downloads
556: Community Forums
557: Statistics
558: Downloads
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Downloads
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Downloads
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Photo Gallery
589: Photo Gallery
590: Your Account
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Downloads
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Downloads
603: News
604: CPGlang
605: CPGlang
606: Community Forums
607: Home
608: Your Account
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Home
616: Your Account
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Member Screenshots
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Downloads
649: Community Forums
650: Home
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: CPGlang
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Downloads
658: Community Forums
659: CPGlang
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Downloads
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: CPGlang
669: Photo Gallery
670: Community Forums
671: Photo Gallery
672: Your Account
673: Member Screenshots
674: Home
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: CPGlang
686: Your Account
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Home
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Your Account
694: Downloads
695: Community Forums
696: Photo Gallery
697: Photo Gallery
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Downloads
701: Community Forums
702: Home
703: Your Account
704: Home
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: CPGlang
708: Community Forums
709: Photo Gallery
710: CPGlang
711: Community Forums
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Member Screenshots
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Home
734: Community Forums
735: Home
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:54 am
Post subject: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

This hulk of a 105mm howitzer armed Sherman, which was apparently one of the three such SP arty vehicles attached to Task Force Baum when they unsuccessfully attempted to liberate the POW camp at Hammelburg, Germany, in late March 1945, is now at a museum. This hulk was found on the ranges at Hammelburg training area several years ago and it appeared on the cover of the "After the Battle" magazine about TF Baum (issue 91). After that, it was no longer used as a hard target and was moved to the site of TF Baum's last stand (still within the training area).

In March, the hulk was finally moved to a museum for preservation (they are even talking about eventual restoration). The front cover still retains original stenciling - it's hard to read and I'm not a Sherman researcher, but it says something about closing the drain plugs. (Does anyone have a reference to what these stencils would have said?)

This tank was commanded by T/Sgt. Charles Graham of the 10th Armored Infantry (acting platoon leader). It was apparently knocked out by a Hetzer tank destroyer when TF Baum was surrounded and overrun.

The tank is now located at the Deutsch-Amerikanisches Nachkriegsmuseum in Rütschenhausen, near Schweinfurt.
www.nachkriegsmuseum.d...tseite.php
Back to top
View user's profile
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

The circled hole is thought to be the penetration from the Hetzer hit.

The museum also has a tankers helmet that was found in the area of TF Baum's last stand on the Hammelburg training area. It still has a 37th Armored insignia that can be barely made out.
Back to top
View user's profile
recon4ww2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 117
Location: western Ohio
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Geoff, That is awesome to hear. I've long been interested in TF Baum. I have to get back over there some day!

Mike Haines
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Hi Mike,

I was in your old stomping grounds on Thursday when I took these photos. I stopped off at that flak battery site south of Euerbach, then I went to Hammelburg to give a TF Baum staff ride to some of the remaining officers still stationed in Schweinfurt (closing next year). We talked about this tank, and I told them it was still out in the training area. Big surprise to me, to see it at this little museum that I stopped at on the way back home.
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Geoff,

That is excellent news!

Here's hoping they preserve rather than restore this Sherman; in the former case it would be a fitting memento for TF Baum, in the latter case it would be "just another Sherman".

Regards,
Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
recon4ww2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 117
Location: western Ohio
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Hanno,

I think I have to agree with you!

Mike Haines
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

I agree as well. I think the major parts should be put back together (as well as they may) and the hulk placed inside, and that's it. I don't really know why they want to "restore" this tank, other than the feeling that they just like to restore "junk" at that museum (they have done a good job with an M48A2 that they received in very poor condition). The museum personnel told me that as of now, the government has not given them permission to do any restoration work, and maybe it will stay that way.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Interesting find! Always neat to hear about a tank that can be traced to an actual event.

Interesting also, is that is is an M4A3 (10%) HVSS and that it was from the 10th Armored Infantry Battalion. I know the AIB's were authorized to get 105mm M4 types in place of the previous M8 75mm HMCs but it is hard to track down which units got that upgrade before VE day as it appears that many units did not get changed over until after the end of hostilities.

Another interesting detail is the large tactical number on the hull side. I haven't seen tac numbers on 4th Armored Division vehicles (at least that I can remember). One usually associates the large hull-side tac numbers with the 6th Arm's Div.
Back to top
View user's profile
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

- binder001

Another interesting detail is the large tactical number on the hull side. I haven't seen tac numbers on 4th Armored Division vehicles (at least that I can remember). One usually associates the large hull-side tac numbers with the 6th Arm's Div.


They look more like the target numbers from the range.

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

- Smashy
They look more like the target numbers from the range.


Thanks, I hadn't thunk 'o that!
Back to top
View user's profile
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Yes, those big yellow 25s are Hammelburg range markings ... this tank is generally referred to as "Target 25" around there.
Back to top
View user's profile
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

I may be visiting this tank again next week. Can someone tell me where to look on the hull and turret, for serial number(s) or any other number that might ID it?
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Hi Geoff:

On the turret top should be raised markings with the foundry, turret serial, and part number, similar to this:
lh3.googleusercontent....ttings.JPG

On the hull, the place to look is the rear tow lugs, here the.shadock.free.fr/sh...05mm14.jpg and in detail the.shadock.free.fr/sh...05mm15.jpg

Next, look for stampings on the edge of the glacis plate: the.shadock.free.fr/sh...05mm17.jpg and the.shadock.free.fr/sh...05mm16.jpg

On the top of the hull, get the markings on the driver's roof plate: lh4.googleusercontent....-h187-p-no

On the differential housing, look underneath: the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...20mark.JPG

Finally, check out this guide: the.shadock.free.fr/sh...ations.pdf

Thanks!
KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
AFV_enthusiast
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:32 am
Post subject: Re: Historic Sherman from TF Baum to be Preserved

Great news. I vote for preservation and keep it indoors.

_________________
- long time armored fighting vehicle enthusiast and former US Army tanker

- Military Vehicle Preservation Association member
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum