±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 716
Total: 716
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Downloads
05: Home
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: CPGlang
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Downloads
22: Your Account
23: Downloads
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: CPGlang
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Statistics
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: CPGlang
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Your Account
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: CPGlang
76: Community Forums
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: News
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Statistics
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: News
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Your Account
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Your Account
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Photo Gallery
132: Member Screenshots
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Your Account
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Your Account
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Downloads
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Downloads
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Statistics
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Member Screenshots
241: Member Screenshots
242: Downloads
243: CPGlang
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Your Account
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Downloads
258: CPGlang
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Photo Gallery
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: CPGlang
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Member Screenshots
301: Your Account
302: Photo Gallery
303: Member Screenshots
304: Statistics
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: News Archive
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: CPGlang
323: Community Forums
324: CPGlang
325: Photo Gallery
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: CPGlang
329: Your Account
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Member Screenshots
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Your Account
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Statistics
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Statistics
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Home
374: Photo Gallery
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Downloads
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Statistics
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: CPGlang
417: Photo Gallery
418: Your Account
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: CPGlang
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Your Account
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Photo Gallery
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Statistics
474: Community Forums
475: Member Screenshots
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Photo Gallery
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Downloads
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: Photo Gallery
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Your Account
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Member Screenshots
547: Member Screenshots
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Statistics
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Photo Gallery
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Home
560: Photo Gallery
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Home
570: Home
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: CPGlang
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Downloads
582: Home
583: Community Forums
584: Home
585: Downloads
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: Photo Gallery
589: Community Forums
590: CPGlang
591: Home
592: CPGlang
593: Community Forums
594: Member Screenshots
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Member Screenshots
600: CPGlang
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: CPGlang
606: CPGlang
607: Member Screenshots
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Downloads
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Downloads
625: Community Forums
626: CPGlang
627: Photo Gallery
628: Photo Gallery
629: Community Forums
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Photo Gallery
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Member Screenshots
640: Photo Gallery
641: Home
642: Photo Gallery
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Home
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Community Forums
653: CPGlang
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: Community Forums
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Your Account
664: Member Screenshots
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Downloads
670: Your Account
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Photo Gallery
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Home
682: Home
683: Community Forums
684: Your Account
685: Community Forums
686: Photo Gallery
687: Community Forums
688: Home
689: Community Forums
690: Statistics
691: Home
692: Photo Gallery
693: Photo Gallery
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Photo Gallery
698: Community Forums
699: Photo Gallery
700: Community Forums
701: Your Account
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Member Screenshots
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: CPGlang
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Photo Gallery
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Hey Roy!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:42 am
Post subject: Hey Roy!

Sorry to be so rude as to call you out on the forum, my good friend. But, I need a professional opinion from a Scout! I know you're not a German Armor afficionado--no one's perfect--but I wanted to ask you what you thought of this vehicle for scouting purposes:


Okay, four man crew, 20 mm. automatic cannon, 60 Km/hr (30Km/hr. cross country), 15.3 horsepower per metric ton, two radios in some versions, one of which was short range, the other good for 25 Km. while moving and armor sufficient to stop 7.62mm rounds from the sides, 20mm rounds from the front. Total weight, about 12 tons, range about 138 miles or eight hours of operation without refueling.

So my friend, does it cut it as a reconnaissance vehicle in your opinion? Smile Smile Smile What would you like changed in a WWII envirnment?

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Is it a fully automatic 20mm? I thought it was a clip fed weapon that was used in a semiautomatic mode and not a 'Machine cannon' similar to the Oerlikon or Hispano 20mm that were used in aircraft or antiaircraft roles

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Quite right Bob! Sorry, an excess of enthusiasm!

If memory serves, the Luchs carried 33 clips, each of 8 rounds of 20mm ammunition.

Thanks for the correction! Smile

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hi David! Hi Folks!

"Sorry to be so rude as to call you out on the forum, my good friend."

No problem Sir! That is why I hang out at places like this!

"I wanted to ask you what you thought of this vehicle for scouting purposes"

I only saw a red "X", no photo, but from your second post I am guessing you are talking about the Luchs light tank.

"four man crew, 20 mm. automatic cannon, 60 Km/hr (30Km/hr. cross country), 15.3 horsepower per metric ton, two radios in some versions, one of which was short range, the other good for 25 Km. while moving and armor sufficient to stop 7.62mm rounds from the sides, 20mm rounds from the front. Total weight, about 12 tons, range about 138 miles or eight hours of operation without refueling."

"So my friend, does it cut it as a reconnaissance vehicle in your opinion? What would you like changed in a WWII envirnment?"

I would think it would make a very good LIGHT recon vehicle. Much better than a US M3 Scout Car, M8 Armored Car, or the M3/M5 light tanks with and without turrets. Anything would be better than a jeep with a machine gun. But then a jeep with a heavy machine gun is better that a walking infantry that is carrying any machine gun.

I some ways, the WWII German Luchs light tank is a bit like the M114A2 and M113 1/2 Lynx C&R vehicles. If it was mechanical sound and didn't break down like the M114 did, I would think it would be OK.

That would be this old Scout's professional opinion.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
recon4ww2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 117
Location: western Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:35 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

David,

I'm a former Scout myself. First I rode a Kawasaki KL250 in the 101st AB,
B troop 2/17th Cav. in 83.Then I was a driver and later gunner on an M-3 Bradley. I gotta tell ya, the Bradley was a fun toy but most of the Scouts in my platoon were not impressed with it as a Scout vehicle! Too big, too loud and the early trany sucked! But worst of all, once we got them we virtually quit training a Scouts It was all gunnery gunnery gunnery! We would have been very weak on the basic scout skills after that such as route recon, bridge classification etc. Sure we loved the firepower we had but a Scout should never need that much to do what Scouts should do. I would have preferred something like a M-114.
So I guess I would also have preferred the Luchs at that time, as a matter of fact I would have preferred the Current Spahapanzer Luchs over the M3!

Sorry for the long post and I'll probably get nuked by the Bradley lovers out there, but it's just my opinion.

Mike Haines
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:45 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Mike

Not a 'Bradley lover' I agree about the modern SP Luchs.

In WWII era:
US: The Jeep was perhaps the best for recon vehicle along with the M20.

German: I would chose the Sd Kfz 222 over the 'Luchs'. Its smaller (?) quieter, and still retains the 2cm/MG42 for protection. For lightweight, perhaps the Kubel/Schwimwagen ?

British: The 'land rover' truck used in Africa. Not sure of the name.

I'm sure this will generate some postings as it may become a 'popularity' contest of armament over stealth.

Let the discussions begin....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Dontos

British: The 'land rover' truck used in Africa. Not sure of the name.

Don


The LRDG used a variety of trucks during the war. The most popular and best remembered was the 30cwt (1 1/2 ton) Chevy. These were actually 4x2 trucks without a driven front axle. The LRDG later received 4x4 Ford CMP based vehicles, but doesn't seem to have been as impressed with them. Evidently the advantage of four-wheel-drive was not seen as adequate compensation for the increase in weight. Desert patrols were a real endurance test for both men and machines, most patrols included a fitter's vehicle stocked with spare leaf springs and spring shackles, amongst other things.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

As I see it the problem with the Luchs is that it is probably almost as resource intensive to produce as a Pz III or PZ IV. You have the complexity of a turret including the machining of a turret ring, a very complex suspension and drive train, etc. All requiring a complex assembly process that could have been better occupied turning out medium tanks.

An M3 scout car has he advantage of being much simpler to produce and can be produced by any medium truck assembly line. The M20 is a little more complex but still uses mass produced drivetrain parts.

So from a 'total war' point of view where you have to consider the impact of a weapon system in terms of the resources it takes to field it I'm not sure the Luchs is the better scout vehicle

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hi Bob, I really wasn't considering the Luchs in terms of its cost effectiveness. All Luchs production, as you know, was finished by February 1943 and I believe that fact alone indicates that the Germans agreed with you that the Luchs was sort of a "luxury" vehicle. In fact, probably the most often used German scout vehicle by the late war years was the Sd. Kfz. 250 series of halftracks.

Say Roy, I don't know why you get a red "X" instead of a photo. The photo shows for me on both my AOL and Netscape browser.

But, anyway, I was interested in how the Luchs stacked up against other vehicles designed for reconnaissance.

So, I'm a little curious as to the similarities between it and the legendary M-114 "Lingle" of the sixties and seventies.

The "Lingle" weighed in at slightly over 6 tons and had about the same Hp/weight ratio--15hp/ton. The Lingle used an 8 cylinder gasoline engine producing 160 hp at 4200 rpms vs. the Luch's 180 hp at 3200 rpms.

Length:
14.64 ft. (Lingle)
14 ft. 2 1/2 inches (Luchs)
Height:
7 ft. over 50. cal. MG (Lingle)
6 ft. 7ins. (Luchs)
Width:
7.64 feet (Lingle)
8 ft. 2ins. (Luchs)
Ground pressure:
5.1 psi. (Lingle)
.77kg/square cm (I can't do this conversion, help?) Luchs

Physically, the two vehicles seem to have a lot of similarities, which is a little odd, considering they were produced in different decades!

So, any opinions on the great Lingle vs. Luchs debate? Laughing Laughing Laughing

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

David

I think the biggest difference with recon in mind, is that the 'Lingle' carries additional personnel to successfully cover more terrain while dismounted thus the operating crew can be prepared to 'bug out' should the occasion arise.

I assume the Luchs has a crew of 3 or 4. This would prevent dismounting unless leaving the vehicle short crewed.

Just a few thoughts on the two
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hi Don! The Luchs carried a crew of 4--commander, radio operator, driver and gunner. And it was really tight inside. The Lingle definitely has the edge on interior space, but I always thought the crew was three, didn't know that dismounts were normally carried.

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- recon4ww2
David,

I'm a former Scout myself. First I rode a Kawasaki KL250 in the 101st AB,
B troop 2/17th Cav. in 83.Then I was a driver and later gunner on an M-3 Bradley. I gotta tell ya, the Bradley was a fun toy but most of the Scouts in my platoon were not impressed with it as a Scout vehicle! Too big, too loud and the early trany sucked! But worst of all, once we got them we virtually quit training a Scouts It was all gunnery gunnery gunnery! We would have been very weak on the basic scout skills after that such as route recon, bridge classification etc. Sure we loved the firepower we had but a Scout should never need that much to do what Scouts should do. I would have preferred something like a M-114.
So I guess I would also have preferred the Luchs at that time, as a matter of fact I would have preferred the Current Spahapanzer Luchs over the M3!

Sorry for the long post and I'll probably get nuked by the Bradley lovers out there, but it's just my opinion.

Mike Haines


Nope, scouts definately got screwed in the late 70s/early 80s by the decision to cancel ARSV and merge the requirement with the emerging MICV program that lead to the Bradley. Its probably a good IFV, but its "scouting in a winnebago."

IMO, the XM800T would have made a good scout vehicle and would probably still be in service today - upgraded with a second gen FLIR, etc. I think the XM800s often get a bad rap. Yet note the following from Hunnicutt's Bradley (page 244):

"In comparing the two XM800 vehicles with the baseline M113A1, the test report concluded that the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance as an ARSV. The XM800W performed well on roads and its quiet operation and high road speed were goals to be achieved for future scout vehicles. However, its limited cross country capability and safety hazards associated with lateral instability and directional control made it less effective than the M113A1."

XM800T



Gotta love the plaque: "Armor will achieve this ground mobility [ie the scout role] by organization, training, mission and a state of mind."



XM800W



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Nice post Neil, do you have any specs for the XM800T? I can't seem to find mine and I'd like to compare its autmotive performance with the Luchs and Lingle.

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
recon4ww2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 117
Location: western Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:29 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hi Neil,

I forgot about the XM 800t, I love that concept. When I first saw it at Knox I couldn't believe it never was fielded.

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hi Mike, I always wondered why it never made it to the troops as well. But look at the picture of it and then scroll up to the picture of the Luchs--it doesn't look like the concept has changed much, just the equipment. Perhaps, like the Luchs, it was regarded as too much of a "luxury".

Best,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum