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History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:40 pm
Post subject: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
This Cobra was found by Doug and I when we visited the Bicycle Lake airfield at Fort Irwin. We were actually there to see the Kiowas that the Observer Controllers (OC) fly, and this was sitting out back. A little history if you didn't see it in a prior post. This Cobra belonged to the Arizona National Guard and was flown here about 5-7 years ago while they were here on a rotation. SFC Shirley, head of maintenence, said the bird broke down and was left when the unit returned to Arizona. Then a package arrived from Arizona that had the birds paper work and "Keys", and it has sat, undisturbed ever since. They actually asked if we had a "low-boy" to take it away. I contacted the post museum and they were surprised and interested.
I contacted the VHPA and they told me none of the Kiowas (10) serial numbers that I sent them had served in Vietnam, but the Cobra was a different story. The records on this bird cover Jan 1968 till Dec 1975. While in Vietnam, this bird was assigned to C Troop, 1/9 Cav, 1st Cav Div. from Feb 1968 till July 1970. Here is the interesting part that many of you armor enthusiasts will love, esspecially Dontos. This aircraft wasn't damaged while flying, or even by the enemy. Instead, the write up states the following; "This major Combat Damage while on the ground was caused by recoiless rifle, with the mission function of being parked in an unprotected location, search and rescue operations were not required, Helicopter was recovered". Shot by what seems to be friendly fire, haha.
After being shipped off for repairs, the bird spent Feb 1972 till April 1975 at Fort Hood, with the 1st Cav, 5th Army. Then from May 75 until that October, it was in maint at Corpus Christy. Then October till December of 1975 it was at Fort Campbell with the 101st Airborne, 1st Army. Thats when the records of the VHPA end. Obviously it made its way to the Arizona ANG.
Not the colorful history of being shot on a straffing run or tank killing but different and almost humerous all the same. Doug, if you have some better pictures, esspecially of the nose, post them. Also, is there a way to post this on "Officers Club" without doing all this typing again?, if so and you can do it easier than I, go ahead. There are some people their that would like the story.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:54 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

Jeff,
Yep, I'll get it into the "Officer's Club"...if not tonight, tomorrow (can use the cut and paste function...or, just link it to here...which I think I will...)

Reading that account, and being familiar with the modus operandi of an air cav sqdn. , I can make a reasonable guess what happened:

1/9 Cav was organized pretty much like 2/17th, which I was in before morphing into a "Blackhorse". As such, they also had a "Delta Troop"...an aerorifle troop with gunjeeps. See:

www.vhpamuseum.org/9th...roop.shtml

Now, the pics there show only M60 MG jeeps, but it's not unlikely they had some 106mm RR's like we did at Delta Troop, 2/17th. Well, you can see where this is going.... something sloppy mighta' happened and nobody wanted much to talk about it, which might be why the reports are kind of scarce on details. Coulda' been one got away from them, or somebody forgot to consider backblast...something like that. It happened with 2.75 FFAR's, why not the RR's?

That's my guess. I'll check my pics of the same bird, but I think I went for the same angles as you did (that happens a lot, I notice).

1/9th is pretty well represented, Alpha-thru-Foxtrot Troops over at:
www.vhpamuseum.org


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

We shot the same angles because "great minds think alike" haha. Your might take the same angle, but they seem to be of better quality. The one picture you took that I really liked, was of the M26 Pershing in the morning light from a low front angle, awsome! I'm still working the L19 Bird Dog research through some contacts at Kirtland AFB, I'll keep you and everyones else posted.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

I just recieved an E-mail from John Conway of the VHPA. He says he knows a number of pilots that flew with C Trp. 1/9 Cav, and that he'll attempt to reach them and find out "the rest of the story", if there is one. Could prove to be real interesting! He was surprised to see that all the Kiowas on post were "virgins" as far as being in SEA.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

"JP" has excellent contacts in that group...he may even be able to locate pics of the same aircraft from that period. The VHPA is pretty much a nexus of interaction among these units, even though many have their own websites (usually with links to/from the VHPA).

I've lost track of the number of contacts I owe to participationg on John's website...
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

Hi Folks!

"He was surprised to see that all the Kiowas on post were "virgins" as far as being in SEA."

KIOWAS (as in OH-58) in SEA?

I don't remember ever seeing a KIOWA during my time over there. All the LOHs I remember were the OH-6 Chayus (Sp-?).

Confuzed,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:23 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

I was looking at the 'dataplate' stencil. I find it interesting that the aircraft is not a AH-1G gunship but a TH-1F dual control training bird. That in itself might make it a rare bird. I thought the G model was the first of the Cobras. I wonder if some early production airframes were built as trainers before the weapons systems were ready so they could start conversion training of Huey pilots?

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

"He was surprised to see that all the Kiowas on post were "virgins" as far as being in SEA."

KIOWAS (as in OH-58) in SEA?

I don't remember ever seeing a KIOWA during my time over there. All the LOHs I remember were the OH-6 Chayus (Sp-?).

Confuzed,
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Roy,
OH-58A's were just coming into service and finding their way into the units, generally NOT as direct replacements for the OH-6A, which was the preferred scout aircraft right up to '72. Here is one of the first ones to enter service with the 101st:

www.vhpamuseum.org/air...H-58A2.jpg

www.vhpamuseum.org/air...OH-581.jpg

Doug
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

- bsmart
I was looking at the 'dataplate' stencil. I find it interesting that the aircraft is not a AH-1G gunship but a TH-1F dual control training bird. That in itself might make it a rare bird. I thought the G model was the first of the Cobras. I wonder if some early production airframes were built as trainers before the weapons systems were ready so they could start conversion training of Huey pilots?


Bob,
I believe that will turn to be a post-war modded airframe...that canopy was not seen in Vietnam...nor the gun that was mostly missing from this aircraft.

Doug
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

AHA!!!!! I got it now....mis-labeled. There IS such an animal as a "TAH-1F" Cobra Trainer. Somebody just forgot that lil' ol' "A" in there. This is why I'm skeptical of taking nomenclatures, S/N's, and tail numbers as gospel. Irregularities can, and do, occur.

There's a TAH-1F that makes the airshow circuit, too. Just "Google" for "TAH-1F".

Jeff...check the interior again...TAH-1's usually had dual controls....look in the front (gunner's) seat for these.
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Uhu_Fledermaus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:35 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

Shocked I'm just a bit googled Laughing

www.airliners.net/sear...entry=true

some nice pics there

fled
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:51 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

If I remeber correctly, it did have forward controls, but didn't all Cobra's? If the shot is shot, shouldn't the gunner be able to try and land that thing?
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:02 am
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
If I remeber correctly, it did have forward controls, but didn't all Cobra's? If the shot is shot, shouldn't the gunner be able to try and land that thing?


The front-seater in a conventional Cobra has a set of side-mount controls for emergency operation, but nothing like the feel of the center stick of the pilot. The front seat is dominated by the reflex sighting gear that displaces the joystick. Real touchy, is what I heard. See pic of this arrangement:
www.vhpamuseum.org/air...ntseat.jpg
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
Here are pictures that I took today when I revisited the Cobra, (I was actually there to schedule my Kiowa flight for next week but thats another story). The pictures should be as follows;
1. front left nose shot
2. chain gun mount (no date seen)
3. left wing (if thats what they are called) note birds nest
4. right wing inside data plate, dated May 78, door that opened to wing had 1972 date.
5. eng pic 1 (left side of bird)
6. eng pic 2 (left side of bird)
7. rocket pods
8. rotor blades (one had a date of 1989, and stated it had a 2 year or 200 hour warranty)
9. Sight Unit Stabilized Telescope as seen from right side of bird.
I found this additional info on this Cobra. It was built under contract number 20114/20533, which covered serial numbers 67-15450 through 15869, (about 419 birds). The original designation was AH-1G-BF. This bird was the first of 13 Cobras converted to TAH-1F configuration, but all 13 were later redesignated as AH-1F. I'm trying to get the museum interested in this bird before it becomes a target! As I left the airfield, a Hummer, forklift and two flat beds passed me, I hope they weren't headed for it!

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: History of Cobra Doug and I found at Ft Irwin...

Jeff:
Two quick details (it's getting confusing with two thread open. perhaps they should be merged...)

" The gunner also had simple flight controls to allow him to fly the machine if push came to shove. "

"378 AH-1Gs were also converted to AH-1F specification from 1979 through 1982, including 41 dual-control TAH-1F trainers"

Souce: www.faqs.org/docs/air/avcobra.html
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