±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 558
Total: 558
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Photo Gallery
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Downloads
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Statistics
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Member Screenshots
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Member Screenshots
91: Your Account
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Downloads
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: News
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Photo Gallery
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Statistics
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Your Account
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Downloads
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Downloads
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Your Account
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: News Archive
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Downloads
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: CPGlang
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Downloads
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: CPGlang
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Your Account
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Downloads
263: Photo Gallery
264: Your Account
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Your Account
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Member Screenshots
284: Community Forums
285: Your Account
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Downloads
308: Community Forums
309: Member Screenshots
310: Home
311: Your Account
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Downloads
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Photo Gallery
328: Member Screenshots
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Member Screenshots
334: News
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: News
343: Community Forums
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: CPGlang
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: CPGlang
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: CPGlang
375: Photo Gallery
376: Statistics
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Member Screenshots
406: Home
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: CPGlang
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: CPGlang
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Downloads
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: CPGlang
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Downloads
455: Home
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Downloads
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Your Account
479: Your Account
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Your Account
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Member Screenshots
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Your Account
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: CPGlang
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Your Account
513: Home
514: Photo Gallery
515: Member Screenshots
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Home
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Your Account
541: Community Forums
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
What is the technical term for ...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kmeyer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:21 pm
Post subject: What is the technical term for ...

the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?

Thanks
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always referred to this as a "neutral steer" in vehicles so capable (not all tracked vehicle were).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

'Neutral turn' is the UK version....

BTW some wheeled vehicles are capable of doing it as well...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

It's called 'neutral steer' because normally it is done with the transmission in neutral.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- kmeyer
the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?


There are two methods of doing this. Vehicles with a clutch-brake steering system can lock one track and transfer all power to the other and thus pivot over the locked track. In WWII that would apply to tanks like the German Panzer III and IV and the Soviet T-34. It is crude and wastes a lot of energy but works - though probably best if the ground is hard.

The other way is by means of turning the tracks in opposite directions. This can be achieved with tanks that have a separate steering drive from the engine. This can be found in many different steering systems but is basically a drive that operates at a fixed speed independant of the propulsion gear choosen. When the steering mechanism is engaged, either by clutches or brakes, the steering drive counterrotates and slows down the speed of one track throught differential or epicyclic gears. As the speed difference between the propulsion shaft and the steering drive shaft is determined by the gear choosen, you get a different steering ratio for each propulsion gear - narrow turns in low gear, wider turns in high gear. When the propulsion gearbox is in neutral, the steering drives is still turning and if you engage it by engaging the steering mechanism - pulling the steering levers - the tracks will turn in opposite directions and the tank turn on the spot. Hence the term "neutral turn". As each track is actually driven, this takes up a lot less energy than pivoting over the braked track as explained above.
This applies to British tanks like the Cromwell and Churchill or German tanks like the Panther and Tiger I and II, even though the actual steerings systems used were different. The French Char B1 had a rather clever version of this system, where the steering drive was turning a hydraulic drive, allowing and infinite number of steering ratios. It was needed, because it was the only means by which the hull mounted 75mm gun could be aimed - by the driver!

I've been told that even today, where tanks are a lot more reliable than they were in WWII, tankers only use neutral turns if it cannot be avoided, particularily off-road as it is quite hard on the mechanical bits and can cause problems with the track. Dont know if that is generally the case?

If you go to the British Pathé homepage and find film ID no. 1976.03, there is a short sequence at the end with Panther "Cuckoo", captured by the British, doing, among other things, a neutral turn.

[edit:] Just stumbled on another sequence on the British Pathé homepage, showing an FT-17 first struggling to run over a road sign, then doing a partial turn over one braked track. Its ID no. 1918.23

Claus B

PS: British Pathé can be found at www.britishpathe.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn. The M48 was fun to drive the transmission wasa 2 speed automatic (I always wondered if it was related to the old Chevy Powerglide) as you were driving and you wanted more power you slapped it into low range, when you wanted to make more speed you slapped it into high. That was back when I was in ROTC. Funny thing was I didn't have a drivers license yet (couldn't afford the insurance) but I could drive a tank.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- bsmart
The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn.


Perhaps too easy. I noticed that there were warnings about touching the steering levers in the Cromwell and Churchill handbooks when the engine was running and the tank in neutral. Accidentally pushing one of the levers would start the tank turning. Probably not the greatest thing if tightly parked in the motorpool or next to a wall. Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Neutral steering on hard surfaces (like concrete), it went without saying, was discouraged when unnecessary because it scrubbed a lot of rubber off the ol' track blocks thus shortening replacement intervals. Leaves a spectacular tell-tale patch too that you don't want to be called upon to explain if you're just goofing around.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Hi Everyone,
Discouraged yes, exactly for that reason too Doug. But when out and about it can be a useful and FUN function, just don't get too carried away in sand or mud or you'll shed a track. Too much will accumulate and will lift the road wheels away from the center guides and then your in trouble. It also will build up between the track and sprocket carrier and roll off, even with the cut outs in it.
Claus, those warnings were also in the M1's ,M551's and M60's. That's why most units make it a rule to have a driver stay in position when the engine is running. Too many times a T-bar has been bumped getting in or out causing the tank to move and if your lucky hit the adjacent tank, a bad day is when there's someone between them. I have grabbed quite a few young troops/LT's in my day preventing them from walking between tanks that are running. They usually are parked only a couple of feet apart in the motorpool.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Thanks Joe & Doug. Always nice to get a real-world perspective Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Like Joe said, I can't recall ever leaving one of the vehicle's referenced with the engine running unattended without the driver in position.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BAGTIC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Missouri Ozarks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always called it "pivoting", to pivot
Back to top
View user's profile
Howard_Thompson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The TM 9-2350-230-12 (M551 Sheridan) Op and Org Maintenance Manual calls this maneuver PIVOT STEER and was limited to low range foward and both reverse ranges.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum