±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 762
Total: 762
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Photo Gallery
03: Photo Gallery
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: News
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Community Forums
14: News Archive
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: CPGlang
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: News Archive
38: Your Account
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Your Account
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: CPGlang
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Community Forums
78: Member Screenshots
79: Home
80: Downloads
81: Member Screenshots
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Downloads
100: CPGlang
101: Photo Gallery
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Downloads
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Downloads
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Home
130: Home
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: CPGlang
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Downloads
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: CPGlang
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: CPGlang
184: Home
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Member Screenshots
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Member Screenshots
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Downloads
238: Downloads
239: Photo Gallery
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Photo Gallery
250: Home
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Downloads
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Home
293: Member Screenshots
294: Community Forums
295: Downloads
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: CPGlang
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: CPGlang
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Downloads
321: Downloads
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Downloads
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Your Account
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Statistics
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Member Screenshots
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: CPGlang
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Downloads
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Your Account
404: Photo Gallery
405: News Archive
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Downloads
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Downloads
427: Member Screenshots
428: Community Forums
429: Downloads
430: Downloads
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Your Account
440: Downloads
441: Member Screenshots
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Statistics
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Your Account
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: Home
466: Home
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Your Account
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: News
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Your Account
500: Member Screenshots
501: Community Forums
502: Downloads
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Downloads
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Home
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Member Screenshots
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Member Screenshots
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: News
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: News Archive
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Downloads
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: CPGlang
558: Community Forums
559: Downloads
560: CPGlang
561: Downloads
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Downloads
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Photo Gallery
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Member Screenshots
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: News
590: News Archive
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Statistics
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: CPGlang
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Photo Gallery
616: Photo Gallery
617: Home
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums
620: Photo Gallery
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Home
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: CPGlang
632: Photo Gallery
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: Member Screenshots
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: Home
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Downloads
651: Community Forums
652: Downloads
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Home
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Search
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Home
671: Photo Gallery
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Home
675: Home
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: CPGlang
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: CPGlang
690: Photo Gallery
691: Photo Gallery
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Photo Gallery
697: CPGlang
698: Community Forums
699: Member Screenshots
700: Community Forums
701: Downloads
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Home
706: Downloads
707: Community Forums
708: Photo Gallery
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Statistics
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Photo Gallery
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Downloads
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Member Screenshots
727: Community Forums
728: Member Screenshots
729: Downloads
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Photo Gallery
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Home
738: Home
739: Home
740: Community Forums
741: Photo Gallery
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Photo Gallery
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Photo Gallery
751: Your Account
752: Downloads
753: Downloads
754: Photo Gallery
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Your Account
759: Downloads
760: Your Account
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker MGS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Stryker MGS

Hi CIA Agents and all other folks!

Found the following photos over at the the US Army mil web site. Looks like the MGS is finally getting into the hands of the crews who will be using them. These photos are of the 1st SBCT, 25th ID at Ft Wainwright.



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7618



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7619

My 2 cents, think of the MGS as an upgrade from the M151 jeep with a M40/106mm RR carring six rounds of HEAT. Don't think of it as a down grade from a MBT.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mumfordlibrarian
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane. In fact it was pretty much being slowly taken out of the active force when there was a competition for a new NATO standard strike plane. Lockheed took the basic shape of the F-104 and redisgned everyrhing about it. New airframe, new wings, new cockpit new (upward firing) ejection seat (The original F-104 ejection seat ejected downward, not a good idea for a strike plane that would operate primarily down on the deck). This was designated the F-104G (except in Canada where I think it was the F-104D but I will have to check) The F-104G got a bad reputation early on. It was later figured out that most of the problem was that the plane was much hotter than the F-84s and G-91s that most of the pilots had been used to. As pilot training and experience went up the track record got better. But thinking the late model F-104s that were used as strike aircraft were the same ones as the early F-104C that the USAF used is like saying the M46 and the M60 are both Patton tanks

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


at the 2006 Armor Symposium, I met up with one of my former TC's from one of my tank platoons. An excellent NCO who really knew his stuff. He had been on the MGS for a couple of years. Amoung other things he simply reinforced the point that the MGS, IS NOT A TANK Shocked , and its primary function is 'Infantry Support".

I equated the parallels of its stated mission, to of the Ontos. Totally dedicated to the role of 'Infantry Support'. (Although the Ontos was classified as a 'Tank Destroyer'.

The problem I think is the mistaken belief that the MGS is a subsitute/replacement for the AGS or even the Sheridan.

The Air Force analogy is a bit off. I was actually surprised that Bob didn't write that.... Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

(ROY you are hereby fined 50 COOL points!! Cool Don't let that happen again..!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane.

Shocked Say what? Confused
Bob, this VERY OLD JARHEAD is going to have to bring you up to date on some very old history.

During 1966 into the first half of 1967, an Air Force F104 Starfighter unit based at Da Nang, RVN was sending those birds up with ONE BOMB under each wing.

Also this old Scout must report that during one FTX at Hohenfels FRG, sometime around 1975 or 1976, while conducting Castle Guard for the Battalion TOC, the TOC was attacked by four West German F104s. I would guess that if those German F104s were conducting that type of mission during peace time, they were planning on using those A/Cs for that type of mission against Warsaw Pack AFVs.

I though about using the F4, but I went with the F104 because I feel it is possible the best example of something build to do one thing and commanders turned around and used it for something it could just barely do.

Some of my very old history. Sorry no pictures to help back up my claims. Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Not doubting your claims. Let me check a couple sources this evening about the Vitenam connection.

The German connection is no problem. That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability. To bring it full circle the Italians later reworked the F-104G design with new radar and missles into the F-104S which was a primary all weather interceptor that even carried AIM-7 Sparrow missles in addition to the AIM-9 Sidewinders that were always available on the F-104G

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability.


Say what? Shocked Strike Fighter! Shocked Shocked
Will that just shows you all how little I know about things with wings!

I hope you find something on the miss use of the F104 in Vietnam. I know their were not flying CAS missions for the Marines, so I guess they were either going out west or up north.

Time for bed, later folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

"G-71 coming to assist element of second platoon, over!" Laughing

(This is an excerpt from a longer article, Joe Baugher is a recognized source, listed at bottom)


"The F-104C (Lockheed Model 483-04-05) was the tactical strike version of the Starfighter. It was designed to meet the needs of the Tactical Air Command (TAC), which had earlier found the F-104A to be unacceptable because of its low endurance and its inability to carry significant offensive payloads.

In April of 1965, a single squadron (the 476th TFS) of the 479th TFW deployed with their F-104Cs to Kung Kuan AB in Taiwan, with regular rotations to the forward base at Da Nang Air Base in South Vietnam. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters. They flew these missions armed with their single M61A1 20-mm cannon and four AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The effect of F-104 deployment upon NVN and PRC MiG operations was immediate and dramatic--NVN MiGs soon learned to avoid contact with USAF strikes being covered by F-104s. During the entire deployment of the 476th only two fleeting encounters between F-104Cs and enemy fighters occurred.

As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.

The 436th TFS assumed the 476th's commitment in DaNang on 11 July, and the 436th began flying combat sorties the next day. Although a few MiGCAP missions were flown, the majority of the missions were quick-reaction close-air support missions in support of ground troops. On July 23, Capt. Roy Blakely attempted to crash-land his battle-damaged F-104C at Chu Lai. Blakely successfully set his aircraft down gear-up, but died when his F-104 swerved off the runway into a sand dune. "

Source: home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Looks like I blew it

I haven't found the book I'm looking for but that's okay. I thought the F-104s had been deployed as Anti Mig cover but not used as attack aircraft. Part of my confusion was mis remembering a picture of an F-106 with a bomb under it's wing that was done as a joke on the commander of Air Defence Command. PACAF F-102s were deployed to Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Vietnam and Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand as Air Defence but eventually withdrawn by 1969 without ever engaging in combat.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes

Oh Doug thanks for reminding me about Joe Baughers aircraft pages. I had been there before but in a series of machine replacements had lost the links. His coverage is excellent. This is his page on the F04s acceptance as a NATO strike fighter.
home.att.net/~jbaugher...04_11.html
He leaves some questions unanswered that are actually well known. Let's just say that there were cases of Bribery involving Lockheed and some European officials that were strong enough that Lockheed now has a VERY STRONG ethics program and annual training about 'Truth in Negotiations', 'Foreign Corrupt Practices' and other ethics courses are now mandatory annual training throughout Lockheed Martin

Oh I found it interesting that of the 722 Starfighters ordered for the USAF only 296 were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The NATO deal was all AFTER that.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- bsmart
.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes



Scouts always stand to be corrected...where you went so horribly wrong was bring to one under fire without keeping in mind that since scouting is their primary function, they normally will not engage unless they know they've got another element in position to bring mutually supporting fire to bear in case it's needed. Laughing ( "G" Troop emerges victorious.)

But hey, you're Air Force, how could you could know? Don on the other hand.....(and does this mean Roy gets his "cool points" back? Mr. Green )

I think somewhere in there the article also notes that F104's also got credit for no air-to-air kills in VN, but that needs to be double checked.

AND....I owe my familiarity with Joe Baugher's pages to....Jeff Button, an 11C turned Transportation (where'd he go, anyway?), so there you go...we be's multidiciplinary at the AFV DG!


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


There already are several 'floating' around the AFV DG.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mr. Green

sorry....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


I don't know about swabbies but there is at least one COASTIE in the group (Someone has to be able to do the maritime safety check before we try and swim an M113)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)


Last edited by bsmart on Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hello fellow CIA Agents and other folks!

To the TC of G71, super thanks for the overwatching support as I took some time out to get some much needed sleep. Well done Sir! That was some heavy duty intell reporting.

To Dontos, did I lose 50 cool points for talking about things with wings or was because I caught you off guard about the history of the F104 in Vietnam?

As for the subject of "swabbies". Well lets see, they have "V" things that are armored and are used to fight from. I would call those super heavy AFVs and therefor more than qualified to be members of this "multidiciplinary" CIA team.

Thanks for the backup G71! "Allons"
Sgt, Scouts Out1

P.S.
As the number ONE conducter of "Alertness Tests" to see if anyone is paying attention to my "flobs ups" I must say that someone has always been there to correct my misinformation so other members will get the correct facts. For all those times, I thank you all.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum