±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 546
Total: 546
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Statistics
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Your Account
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: CPGlang
74: Community Forums
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Photo Gallery
84: Downloads
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Statistics
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Your Account
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Downloads
112: Community Forums
113: News
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Your Account
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Downloads
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Statistics
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Statistics
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Your Account
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Downloads
162: Photo Gallery
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: News
166: Community Forums
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: CPGlang
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Search
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Downloads
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Your Account
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: Community Forums
205: News
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: CPGlang
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: CPGlang
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: Community Forums
243: Member Screenshots
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Downloads
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Your Account
289: CPGlang
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: News
299: Downloads
300: Photo Gallery
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Downloads
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Your Account
339: Statistics
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Downloads
346: Community Forums
347: News
348: Home
349: Photo Gallery
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Photo Gallery
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Downloads
377: Photo Gallery
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Your Account
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Statistics
389: Downloads
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Member Screenshots
395: Member Screenshots
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Downloads
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Photo Gallery
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Photo Gallery
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: CPGlang
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Search
445: Statistics
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Your Account
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Contact
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Downloads
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Photo Gallery
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Downloads
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Your Account
509: Photo Gallery
510: Member Screenshots
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Member Screenshots
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Your Account
537: Member Screenshots
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Your Account
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:34 pm
Post subject: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Hi folks

visited the Wings and wheels show at Ursel Belgium last weekend

And because they had some AFV's there, some picture's Cool

Sherman Firefly


Piranha IIIC 8x8 AIV


M5A1 light tank Stuart



other vehicle's around


Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Some more

AEC Mk II MATADOR


M24 Chaffee


Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Last to show, other wise I get in trouble with the moderators

First of all an LVT
I think it is an LVT 4, however I'm not sure
So if some one could give me the right answer

This one is also from the new For Freedom Museum at Knokke, Belgium



Finaly the second Sherman Firefly at the show an sort of 1+1 = 1 Mr. Green
This Firefly is made up of two different vehicle's, you can see weld seam running accros the side of the vehicle

The other side looks the same
The weld seam run across the additional welded on armour plate, through the turret ring all around


For more vehicle's there:
s1015.photobucket.com/...=slideshow

michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Michael - I'm not sure the last firefly was made from two vehicles. It appears to be an M4 Composite which has a cast front plate on a welded hull. They came that way from teh factory

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Well I'm not an Sherman expert
I realy cannot tell you if the ever made an welded hull with an cast front section Neutral

However it is very unlikely that they would make an additional armour plate out of 2 parts, weld it to each section of the tank hull and then weld the two hull sections to 1 hull

Like they did with this tank


Would be easier to weld the 2 hull sections together and after that weld the addtional armour plate to the side

Or is that to much logic .... Confused

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Michel,

I agree with Bob, it is a Sherman Composite, also called Hybrid by the British troops. It was built at the Detroit factory with a front cast hull and rear welded hull. The fact that the side appliqué armor is made of 2 parts is common to all of the M4 Composite, I cannot tell why.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

okay, making the additional armour plate out of 1 part is to much logic Mr. Green

At least now I know what the mean with an hybride hull Laughing

However this leaves me with 2 questions:
- first the small top armour plate has his own stamped in markings: MB4-224, is that an common thing to do
- how many hybride hulls are there still around ??

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

- Michel_Krauss
okay, making the additional armour plate out of 1 part is to much logic Mr. Green

At least now I know what the mean with an hybride hull Laughing

However this leaves me with 2 questions:
- first the small top armour plate has his own stamped in markings: MB4-224, is that an common thing to do
- how many hybride hulls are there still around ??

Michel


I was ready shout "Composite", but it was already done before I could. So, it is a "composite" hull Sherman.

The reason the armor plates have different serial is that they were not field fabrications. They were fabricated in a factory, and possibly even applied during manufacturing of the new tank. Even if they were applied in the field, modifications like this were often supplied in a kit that included everything from the armor plates themselves to the welding rod and instructions for installing them. (They still do it that way...the Add-On Armor for our HMMWVs in Iraq in 2004 came like this.)

Industry being what it is, each little bit has it's own part number and other markings. So the individual parts of the add-on armor each have their own part number, drawing, and possibly even production area! Shocked Typically, the part number or drawing number would be (is) stamped or cast into the part, so it could (can) be distinguished from other similar parts...or in the case of that small snip of armor plate, distinguished from scrap metal.

On the other hand, it could be a conspiracy by deep-thinking industry magnates, to confuse future tank spotters and enthusiasts... Twisted Evil Wink

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:26 am
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

- Michel_Krauss


Would be easier to weld the 2 hull sections together and after that weld the addtional armour plate to the side

Or is that to much logic .... Confused

Michel


Michel,

I realize that we didn't answer one of your question.
Yes, it is logical that the additional armor has a welding which is similar to the welding on the hull.
As you can see, the hull is not flat at the place where the appliqué armor was welded, because of the rounded aspect of the cast front hull. If you weld a 1-piece armor plate, it will not fit to the cast part of the hull.

Kurt Laughlin wrote an interesting article about the applique armor, that you can rear here :
http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdoc%2F30827701%2FApplique-Armor-on-M4-Series-Medium-Tanks&ei=c3lnTIfZHcre4AaP8pmZBA&usg=AFQjCNE78lRDL3hAsvSy4e_3WU3Zj7xVGQ&sig2=6hwvCKhpKXulzlMLsFoyfA

To quote Kurt Laughlin :
"Obviously, mating flat plates on the irregularly curved cast hull required additional measures. While still located 1-inch above the sponson edge, the FSMWO directed that the plates were “cut to suit”. Photographs show several variations in the cut configuration. The left and right rear plates were normally split near the top while the right front plate was cut into two to five pieces to match the compound curves in this area. At some point formed plates that better conformed to the cast hull were issued but the introduction date is unknown."

You will also find other appliqué armor made-up of several bits on M4A1s, like here :





P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Hi folks,

thanks for the answers

However still 1 question remaining: are there any other Sherman hybride hulls still around


P-O

would be something for your website
Sherman hulls variations and what strange things (additional armour) can be found on them Mr. Green

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 am
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

- Michel_Krauss
However still 1 question remaining: are there any other Sherman hybride hulls still around


yes, of course. Have a look there :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Sherman_Fireflies.pdf

- Michel_Krauss

P-O

would be something for your website
Sherman hulls variations and what strange things (additional armour) can be found on them Mr. Green

Michel


it is planned to be added soon. I was waiting to have better shots of some of the armored plates before creating the page.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:29 am
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

P-O

you can use the picture's if needed
I have some more of diffferent angle's also

I also added some more picture's of Ursel to my photobucket album
s1015.photobucket.com/...=slideshow

Going through the picture's it appears that there where more Dutch vehicle's then Belgium one's Twisted Evil

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Tichenor
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Michel

That M4 composite is from a private collector near Antwerp, it is an original hull that was recovered from a range some 20 years ago. The turret was aquired a few years later. He has been regular seen at different shows here in Belgium and even in France.

Second question; I have about 26 composite Shermans at the register, most of them can been found in Belgium, Argentina, USA, South Africa and a few in Italy and Australia.
In Belgium there is one as monument in Willebroek (between Antwerp and Brussels) and two at the range in Brasschaat.

Tichenor
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Tichenor
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium

Michel

You have labeled the M4 Composite wrong at your photobucket album, it should read Sherman Ic Hybrid. The British used Sherman I for the M4, II for the M4A1, III for the M4A2, IV for the M4A3 and V for the M4A4. the letter c was added for the 17pdr and b was used for the 105 (I believe).

Tichenor
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Wings and Wheels 2010 Ursel Belgium



this is not an AEC Matador as labelled, but an AEC Armoured Car :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEC_Armoured_Car

(of which I should create a PDF file listing the survivors soon).

the AEC matador is an artillery tractor :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEC_Matador

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum