±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 650
Total: 650
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Downloads
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: News Archive
07: Photo Gallery
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Your Account
23: Photo Gallery
24: Home
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: News Archive
30: Photo Gallery
31: Downloads
32: Home
33: Your Account
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: CPGlang
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Home
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Photo Gallery
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: CPGlang
79: Community Forums
80: Statistics
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: CPGlang
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Your Account
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: CPGlang
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Home
119: News Archive
120: Home
121: Home
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: CPGlang
130: Photo Gallery
131: Photo Gallery
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Member Screenshots
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Your Account
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: CPGlang
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Gallery
187: Your Account
188: Downloads
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: CPGlang
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Member Screenshots
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: CPGlang
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: CPGlang
280: Member Screenshots
281: Home
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Downloads
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: CPGlang
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Photo Gallery
312: Home
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Home
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Downloads
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Member Screenshots
340: Photo Gallery
341: Photo Gallery
342: News
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Your Account
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Downloads
352: Home
353: Home
354: Home
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: CPGlang
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: News
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: CPGlang
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: CPGlang
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: CPGlang
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Downloads
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Home
406: Photo Gallery
407: CPGlang
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Downloads
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Home
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: CPGlang
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: CPGlang
455: Photo Gallery
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Your Account
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Photo Gallery
477: Your Account
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Member Screenshots
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Downloads
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: CPGlang
499: Downloads
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Statistics
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: CPGlang
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Photo Gallery
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Member Screenshots
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Downloads
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Home
535: Home
536: Your Account
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Downloads
542: Downloads
543: Photo Gallery
544: Downloads
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: CPGlang
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Photo Gallery
563: Downloads
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Member Screenshots
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: CPGlang
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: CPGlang
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: News
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Photo Gallery
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: CPGlang
604: Photo Gallery
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Home
608: Downloads
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Home
613: Downloads
614: Downloads
615: Community Forums
616: Statistics
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Your Account
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: News Archive
628: Home
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Photo Gallery
632: Community Forums
633: Photo Gallery
634: Home
635: Downloads
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Statistics
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Downloads
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I was at the Washington Armor Club (modelers) meeting yesterday and mentioned the M5 Stuart wreck at the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge (which was formerly a Fort Meade target range) - when one of the guys there mentioned that there were also four British Crusader wrecks located there.

Accordingly, Steve Carter just provided the below pictures. Can anyone tell that these are Crusaders? Its close enough that I'm tempted to make a trip sometime soon...

I cant tell if these are the same or different ones. The second one looks to be upside down? Isnt that a Christie suspension arm in the foreground?





Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

The two photos don't show the same tank hull, but the two are upside down. f you closely compare the 2 hulls, they are very similar but have some differences. I can't tell for sure if these are Crusaders or not..
(And there is a man on the right side of the 1st photo, quite well hidden..)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
fitzday
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

I think those are the same hull, just different angles. If you look close the same busted up second roadwheel is apparent in each picture. And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. If I'm not mistaken, Crusaders had 5 didn't they? Anybody have any idea what Crusaders would be doing in MD?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Yep, the Crusader was the first British "Christie Cruiser" to have five roadwheels.

I'm not all that surprised there are/were Crusaders in Maryland, but a little surprised they were at Fort Meade rather than APG. I highly suspect they were Reverse Lend-Lease...

The Ordnance Museum already has one Crusader Mk III, and had a Crusader Mk IICS (close support variant) at one point... But I dont have any records for another 3 missing Crusaders... Its possible that Jarret didnt acquire these for the museum since he already had two and therefore they went straight to the ranges at Meade.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

BTW, Bob, I wont be able to make it up for your tour this weekend as I have friends in town - but I think perhaps we should plan on a huntin' trip to Laurel sometime in the near future Wink

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

[quote="fitzday"]I think those are the same hull, just different angles.

I agree with that.

And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. quote]

They are not torsion bars. Christie suspension used large springs between the inner and outer hulls.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Joe DeMarco sent me these pictures yesterday - I think this fairly concretely answers the question...





He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance Surprised

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

SALVAGE!!!

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

Joe said he told Charles Lemmons with the Patton Museum about them some years ago. Joe thought there was enough to probably put together one Crusader. He also said that its possible they've already been moved by one of the "remediation teams."

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I don't really like to open a two years old thread but anytime I'm listing thru Surviving Cruiser tank list I get really curious what happened to those five Crusaders. Any news from Patton museum about them?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

No Crusaders here. With the armor element moving, its very doubtful any effort has been or will be made.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

It would be really sad if they ended up in scrap...
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

They will most likely continue to sit and decay... Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone..


Who should do the effort?

I would be ready to come in the US and cut down some trees to remove them from there !!!

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

You'd need lots of government approvals, money, equipment, etc. They're currently on old target ranges, with potentially unexploded ordnance. Needless to say they advise you stay on the trails - which are presumably clear of any UXO

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum