±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 779
Total: 779
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: CPGlang
13: News
14: Community Forums
15: Your Account
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Photo Gallery
28: CPGlang
29: Member Screenshots
30: CPGlang
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: CPGlang
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Your Account
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: CPGlang
63: CPGlang
64: Photo Gallery
65: Member Screenshots
66: CPGlang
67: CPGlang
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Search
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Member Screenshots
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Your Account
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Your Account
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: CPGlang
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Your Account
109: Downloads
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: CPGlang
113: Photo Gallery
114: CPGlang
115: Downloads
116: Member Screenshots
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Search
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: CPGlang
142: Home
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: CPGlang
147: Member Screenshots
148: CPGlang
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Your Account
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: CPGlang
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Your Account
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: News
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: CPGlang
199: Member Screenshots
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: CPGlang
207: CPGlang
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Your Account
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: CPGlang
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: CPGlang
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: News
228: Community Forums
229: Downloads
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: News
240: Community Forums
241: Member Screenshots
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: CPGlang
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Member Screenshots
282: CPGlang
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: News Archive
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Statistics
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Member Screenshots
296: Community Forums
297: CPGlang
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: CPGlang
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: CPGlang
319: Downloads
320: Home
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: CPGlang
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Member Screenshots
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Photo Gallery
349: News
350: Photo Gallery
351: Member Screenshots
352: Your Account
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: CPGlang
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: CPGlang
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: CPGlang
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Home
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Your Account
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: CPGlang
400: Member Screenshots
401: Community Forums
402: CPGlang
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Downloads
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Downloads
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: CPGlang
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: CPGlang
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Member Screenshots
435: CPGlang
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: CPGlang
439: CPGlang
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Your Account
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: CPGlang
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: News
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Member Screenshots
466: CPGlang
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: CPGlang
471: CPGlang
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Home
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: CPGlang
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Member Screenshots
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: CPGlang
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Member Screenshots
503: Photo Gallery
504: Photo Gallery
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Search
513: Your Account
514: News
515: Statistics
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Downloads
523: Search
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Photo Gallery
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Downloads
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Downloads
551: Photo Gallery
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: News
563: CPGlang
564: Photo Gallery
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Downloads
574: CPGlang
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Photo Gallery
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: CPGlang
593: Downloads
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Your Account
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Downloads
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Member Screenshots
614: Downloads
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Home
619: Photo Gallery
620: Downloads
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Your Account
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Photo Gallery
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Home
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Home
660: News Archive
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: CPGlang
670: Member Screenshots
671: Community Forums
672: CPGlang
673: Member Screenshots
674: Community Forums
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: CPGlang
681: Your Account
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: CPGlang
685: Downloads
686: Photo Gallery
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Statistics
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Downloads
704: Member Screenshots
705: Photo Gallery
706: Community Forums
707: Your Account
708: Home
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Member Screenshots
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Member Screenshots
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Home
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Your Account
725: Home
726: Home
727: News
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Photo Gallery
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Downloads
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Photo Gallery
744: CPGlang
745: Community Forums
746: CPGlang
747: Community Forums
748: Home
749: Home
750: News
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Photo Gallery
754: Home
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Photo Gallery
760: Community Forums
761: Photo Gallery
762: Photo Gallery
763: Community Forums
764: News
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: News
770: Downloads
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Home
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Photo Gallery
779: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Need help on a Hetzer / G-13
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:44 am
Post subject: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Hello,

I would like to check facts. I received an email containing this picture, and the parti circled in red seem to prove that Kevin Wheatcroft's Hetzer is a G-13. Is this enough to identify for sure the model of the tank? Thanks !!


_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:57 am
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Do we have any pictures showing the gun, near the mantlet?

Masimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Walter
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 618
Location: Arnhem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

I have a picture from upfront,but I am not allowed to put it on the internet.Will send you this in your mail Massimo

Walter
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Very interesting. Even if it has or had a Saurer engine, it could still be a WW2 Hetzer modified to G13 spec, if I understand correctly?
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

- earlymb
Very interesting. Even if it has or had a Saurer engine, it could still be a WW2 Hetzer modified to G13 spec, if I understand correctly?

It depends on the definition of G-13 Smile
We discussed the topic quite a few times in the past.

Anyway, the Saurer engine was added in Switzerland, some time after the tanks left their Czechoslovakian factory

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Thanks for the picture Walter! It seems it has a StuK 40 gun, but the angle isn't the best, so I can't be 100% sure.

From behind it doesn't have the "bump", at the top left of the rear sloped plate that is typical of G-13s with Saurer engines. You can see what I am talking about here:


G-13 Panzerjäger by Massimo Foti, on Flickr

I have a pretty strong feeling it's a G-13 with a gasoline engine, but I need additional pictures with the gun to be sure.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

gun is irrelevant to the vehicle. changing the gun after the war does not change the vehicle. Nor does changing the engine.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

It's not like guns were changed after the war. The vehicles were assembled after the war with spare parts mostly produced during the war (with Waffenamt markings all over the place). But gun and crew layout were different.

A very similar case happened for Fiat G-59 airplanes, assembled after the war from unfinished G-55 parts, using a different engine (RR Merlin vs DB-605) and guns.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Landsverk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 10, 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

If you have a "fake" vehicle you can make it look original by changing parts, but it will still be a "fake".
Happens all the time with both vehicles and Equipment. If you are honest with people telling them what you have done there is nothing wrong with this, but if you then claim that it is original it is wrong.

Thats why these questions are relevant. In Norway there was a Pz 38T for sale some time ago - a restoration project. It turned out to be a fake - a Swedish Self propelled gun SAV m/43 built by Scania in 1945 and then converted to look like a Pz 38T and together with original 38T turret it could be put up for sale as an "original" Pz 38T. If the seller is honest with you and tell you all the facts - no problem, but you will probably get more Money if you claim that it is original.
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Guns were changed after the war, barrels wear out and need to me changed. No one was going to make the new barrels so they used what was available. There is no difference in crew layout other than two crew switched seats.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

We had this same discussion in the past. I mentioned sources, books and respected authors. I see no point arguing, we will keep our own opinions anyway.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

for me the question is : was it assembled post-1945 with existing parts produced during WW2, or was it completed during WW2 and modified after the war?

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

People like Charles K. Kliment and Vladimir Francev, plus a bunch of less-know authors already answered that question. G-13s were assembled after the war, with spare parts left behind plus some newly manufactured parts. The percentage of new parts was and will remain unclear, but pretty much everybody think it was small.

As for the story behind guns and engines, we talked about it in the past.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

we should do a poll about this, lol

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

It's a topic that may have emotional or financial implications for somebody, that's why he can easily trigger extreme reactions Smile

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum