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Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Joe,
Not to divert from a good enigma... But I have an M60 SN question. If it ends in an A its the Anniston Army Depot rebuild SN... What if it ends in an M???

Neil

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

- Joe_D

This tank is a real brain teaser, the more Jeff posts on it, the more questions I have. Maybe we need an AFV "CSI" team to fly down and investigate it . Who knows, could be a new TV show on the History Channel.

Stumped and Frustrated because I ain't there,

Joe D

"Scramble your best Curmudgeon Team! This is not a drill!" ...and let's not spoil any facts we might elucidate with any "helpful" editting by a H-C crew, eh, Joe?

This vehicle is, indeed, the most interesting enigma to come our way in a while...and don't we love a good mystery?

Joe_D · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Hi everyone,
I'm kinda wish I had commented on the "Smooth Bore" earlier but I initially thouht the picture was taken from the breech, Duh!!!

. Very interesting discovery. Based on the information Jeff posted:

The breech area said; "TUBE No 11041, CANNON 105mm, Gun M68, MFR. 9208, 1971, 1660LBS, INS",

This leads me to believe it's a standard 105 rifled tube. The manufacture date being 1971 also says this is not the original tube for this tank, not surprising since they were only good for about 1000 EFC rounds. I looked a lot closer at the interior pictures Jeff posted and one thing that stands out is the Nylon sheild is missing inside the turret along with the large counter weight to the right of the breech. The Auxillary sight also does not look original, It should be a 105C for it's age. Can't tell by the sight picture because it looks like the HEAT reticle is indexed. By the looks of the inside I think the whole gun and maybe breech have been replaced in this tank. It also looks like the breech is covered in Grease to preserve it. The breech would have it's own serial number and manufacture date located at the 6 o'clock looking at it from the back, just under the breech block. Those generally were good for at least 3000 rounds from what I remember, no reason why it wouldn't be the original unless the whole assembly was replaced as I suspect. I have no idea why the the rifle groves are removed, demilling is a good guess but that takes a lot of work compared to just welding a plug. Might be a tube they got that was defective from Watervliet Arsenal that was identified as defective before they rifled it. This tank is a real brain teaser, the more Jeff posts on it, the more questions I have. Maybe we need an AFV "CSI" team to fly down and investigate it Laughing

. Who knows, could be a new TV show on the History Channel.

Stumped and Frustrated Mad

because I ain't there,

Joe D

Dontos · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

- SFC_Jeff_Button

This M60A3 was one of the first I saw while driving around Ft Hood that wasn't in a museum. This one sits in the 4th ID area, at a three street, pie-wedge intersection of Battalion Ave and 19th and 20th Streets. Serial number is 3293A, ("A" in believed to stand for Anniston rebuild).

Jeff
'Death Dealers' was for 1/67 & 2/67 Ar Bns ( formally 2nd AD ).

That is where a snack stand was, if I remember correctly.

Don

bsmart · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Jeff

Just popped you and Neil PMs. But for both you and everyone else, check out the 'Aberdeen in April' thread that is in the 'sticky area'.

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Yes, 9190 was the original serial, should have said that before. The fire was worse than first thought, not a grass fire but a run away brush fire where flames were 30-40 ft high. Commanchee 1,2, and 3 were all evacuated. People were not aloowed back into houseing by car, and were parking along the edge of housing running in on foot to get pets while the MP's watched. I live about 5-6 miles away to the west, and my car and truck were covered on ash and dust this morning. Spent the morning washing them. I had a family get ready to spend the night at my house last night with their dog, cat, and even a rat, but they were finally allowed to go home around 9pm. Rumor has it the fire was started by one of two ways; a power line blew down in the winds and sparked, or a local burn got out of control in the high winds. Killeen registered a high wind gust of 48mph, Waco hit 55mph.
How are your weekends looking around mid-late March? How long a trip is it fron Eustis to APG? PM me with the info.

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Looks like the original SN was 9190?

Neil

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Jeff, thanks again for all the pics. I'll add it to the register.

BTW, I hope those fires didnt force ya'll to evacuate?

Neil

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:04 am Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

This M60A3 was one of the first I saw while driving around Ft Hood that wasn't in a museum. This one sits in the 4th ID area, at a three street, pie-wedge intersection of Battalion Ave and 19th and 20th Streets. Serial number is 3293A, ("A" in believed to stand for Anniston rebuild).

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Its definately a mystery... I suspect it had a smoothbore cannon - ie a weight/barrel instead of a real gun - because it was meant to be a training tank, but otherwise had all the right components.... The Army did consider a 105mm smoothbore gun called the T210E4 for the T95E4 tank, but the barrel looked considerably different with the bore extractor well forward compared to the M68...

Neil

bsmart · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

I wonder if some kind of de-milling involved grinding the rifling out for a certain distance in from the muzzle? Getting a light further down the barrel so we could see if there was rifling further down the bore would be interesting (as would getting a measurement of the bore diameter at the muzzle)

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Jeff,
It sure looks real to me, too. If you have found some sort of early smoothbore 105mm experimental piece 'o ordnance, then that's truely a signficant historical item and we've got some homework to do. I've very curious to hear others' take on this, because to the best of my knowledge, there's nothing you can do to the rifled version of that gun to cause what you've found in the normal course of events. A precise measurement across the inside diameter of that bore would be interesting.

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

I just found my ealier pictures of this "Slick 60" that I took in good sunlight. This may help with identifying some features and looking for those glacis grind marks and muzzle end? Here are also the inside gun data plate and information. The breech area said; "TUBE No 11041, CANNON 105mm, Gun M68, MFR. 9208, 1971, 1660LBS, INS", from there I couldn't make out any more. I sure thought it was a real cannon/muzzle, but I'm not the tank expert.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

I snapped a picture down the muzzle and was suprised to see it was smooth bore. The other M60 I took pics of had a rifled barrel. Is this another clue to it being a "Slick 60"?

SMOOTH BORE 105mm gun tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only one who noticed this?
The profile of that tube makes me think it is a normal rifled barrel and not a mock up.

Why would a M60A0 or any other M60 type have a SMOOTH BORE?

Very confuzed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Nope...and I've been wracking my brain trying to recall any Board experiments with smooth bore experiments on older model Pattons...and coming up dry. Found nuttin' in Hunnicutt yet either. Doesn't mean there weren't any though. Maybe Bob knows of something from the APG archives. I can imagine an interest in this concept, but I'm suspicious.
We need a look-see inside at this gun. Wink

Jeff, can you get a view of the muzzle of this gun? Does it have the boresight "notches"? (four of them, for attaching thread or string across the end of the muzzle on the outside, might let us know if this is even a real gun barrel or not, though it certaionly looks to be)

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: M60 at Ft Hood for Joe D...

Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

I snapped a picture down the muzzle and was suprised to see it was smooth bore. The other M60 I took pics of had a rifled barrel. Is this another clue to it being a "Slick 60"?

SMOOTH BORE 105mm gun tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only one who noticed this?

The profile of that tube makes me think it is a normal rifled barrel and not a mock up.

Why would a M60A0 or any other M60 type have a SMOOTH BORE?

Very confuzed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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