±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 767
Total: 767
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Your Account
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Home
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: News Archive
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Member Screenshots
53: Photo Gallery
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Home
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Downloads
78: CPGlang
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Statistics
98: Community Forums
99: News Archive
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: CPGlang
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Your Account
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: News
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Your Account
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: News
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Your Account
177: CPGlang
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Your Account
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Photo Gallery
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: News Archive
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Photo Gallery
207: Downloads
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: CPGlang
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Your Account
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Your Account
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: CPGlang
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Photo Gallery
253: Your Account
254: CPGlang
255: CPGlang
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: LinkToUs
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Your Account
280: News Archive
281: Community Forums
282: Statistics
283: Community Forums
284: Statistics
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Downloads
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: News Archive
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Downloads
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: CPGlang
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Statistics
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: CPGlang
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Downloads
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: News Archive
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: CPGlang
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Your Account
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Home
448: Home
449: Home
450: Downloads
451: CPGlang
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Downloads
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Your Account
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: News Archive
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Photo Gallery
492: Home
493: Your Account
494: Home
495: Home
496: Member Screenshots
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Your Account
506: Downloads
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Member Screenshots
510: News Archive
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Statistics
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Tell a Friend
524: News
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Statistics
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Downloads
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Statistics
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Home
594: Downloads
595: Photo Gallery
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: News Archive
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Home
608: Your Account
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Member Screenshots
620: CPGlang
621: Home
622: Downloads
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: CPGlang
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Statistics
639: Photo Gallery
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Your Account
650: Photo Gallery
651: Downloads
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Photo Gallery
663: Home
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Downloads
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Photo Gallery
674: Home
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Downloads
699: Downloads
700: Community Forums
701: Home
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Home
705: Community Forums
706: CPGlang
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Home
711: CPGlang
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Downloads
719: Member Screenshots
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: CPGlang
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Photo Gallery
729: Your Account
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Home
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: CPGlang
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: CPGlang
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Photo Gallery
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Photo Gallery
752: Community Forums
753: Downloads
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Home
759: Community Forums
760: Photo Gallery
761: Community Forums
762: Photo Gallery
763: Community Forums
764: Statistics
765: Your Account
766: Member Screenshots
767: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M113 #1?????
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:05 am
Post subject: M113 #1?????

okay, now i have lost it! the MC ranks the M113 as the "the greatest infantry fighting vehicle of all time"!!!
what the F!!! it is a refrigerator!! it is made out of aluminum!!!
it is a taxi!!

what is wrong with these people.... let alone the fact that the narrator cant properly pronounce any of the foreign vehicle names...
sr
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:18 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

Did Sparky write the script for the show?

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

- SHAWN
okay, now i have lost it! the MC ranks the M113 as the "the greatest infantry fighting vehicle of all time"!!!
what the F!!! it is a refrigerator!! it is made out of aluminum!!!
it is a taxi!!

what is wrong with these people.... let alone the fact that the narrator cant properly pronounce any of the foreign vehicle names...
sr


Take a deep breath....

I've seen the show, and as I remember its presentation, it made sense.

Of course I make this statement, eventhough SPARKY's attempts to have the (unnamed) M113 placed on a pedistol and require all humanity to bow down to Lt Gen Gavins invention. (apoligies to the memory of Gen Gavin)

What do you expect from The History Channel? Besides those shows are quite dated, and the Abrams has been aquitted of its former declared non-relevance, the M113 (along with tons of add on armor) continues to serve a mission which no other vehicle is capable of doing due to its available quantity.

Very few Main Battle Tank's IN CURRENT SERVICE have endured the level of combat service that the Abrams has, and maintained its place as one of the Best in the modern era. The Challanger II is perhaps the only other to keep its name untarnished. Oh, and perhaps the Leo I can be considered too, most other MBT's are either un-tested in combat or have failed miserably.

JMHO
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

- Dontos
- SHAWN
okay, now i have lost it! the MC ranks the M113 as the "the greatest infantry fighting vehicle of all time"!!!
what the F!!! it is a refrigerator!! it is made out of aluminum!!!
it is a taxi!!

what is wrong with these people.... let alone the fact that the narrator cant properly pronounce any of the foreign vehicle names...
sr


Take a deep breath....

I've seen the show, and as I remember its presentation, it made sense.

Of course I make this statement, eventhough SPARKY's attempts to have the (unnamed) M113 placed on a pedistol and require all humanity to bow down to Lt Gen Gavins invention. (apoligies to the memory of Gen Gavin)

What do you expect from The History Channel? Besides those shows are quite dated, and the Abrams has been aquitted of its former declared non-relevance, the M113 (along with tons of add on armor) continues to serve a mission which no other vehicle is capable of doing due to its available quantity.

Very few Main Battle Tank's IN CURRENT SERVICE have endured the level of combat service that the Abrams has, and maintained its place as one of the Best in the modern era. The Challanger II is perhaps the only other to keep its name untarnished. Oh, and perhaps the Leo I can be considered too, most other MBT's are either un-tested in combat or have failed miserably.

JMHO
Don


What Don said...and....

While the term "Infantry Fighting Vehicle" is a little broad, it has fulfilled that mission on occasion, and not done badly at it.

More importantly, I'd submit that with over 80,000 built, and with it built under license in numerous countries, been in service with many more countries, and filled so many roles in so many variants for so long that it's not at all a stretch to consider it as a "winner" in this context. Consider a vehicle in it's historical context, not what's the best on the market on the most recent date, that's the test of any item. It certainly isn't the best IFV today, but was that the question?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

What were the other vehicles in the Top 10? I'm curious where the BTR and BRDM series placed as well as the M-3 Halftrack and the SdKfz251 as well as the Stryker and the Bradley.

If that segment ran true to form they got points for longevity, combat power, innovation etc. Any multigenerational ranking is tough but I find myself comparing where x ranked compared to y when I see these shows

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

Yeah, despite the name, it was really top 10 APCs - considering IFVs as a "subclass" (which some do). Me and my friend Kevin had a big debate over IFV vs APC when the show first ran...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

where I have a disagreement with this series (Tanks, ships ,bombers, rifles, etc) is that it uses a quantity factor as the basis for deciding a quality factor. If an item is absolutely the best of it's kind, it is just that, whether they produced a single one or 15 million. By that criterion an old four stack, flush deck US destroyer is a greater warship that an Iowa class battleship. To me,the top ten should be the ten best qualativly not numericaly

my two cents

Jeff "Piney" Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

I'd classify the 113 as an APC, not an IFV. Even the Bradley or BMP are truly "light tanks" that can carry infantry inside. While both series enable some fighting by infantrymen inside, their main purpose is to deliver the infantry to a point on the battlefield and then provide direct fire support to the dismounts.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

- piney
where I have a disagreement with this series (Tanks, ships ,bombers, rifles, etc) is that it uses a quantity factor as the basis for deciding a quality factor. If an item is absolutely the best of it's kind, it is just that, whether they produced a single one or 15 million. By that criterion an old four stack, flush deck US destroyer is a greater warship that an Iowa class battleship. To me,the top ten should be the ten best qualativly not numericaly

my two cents

Jeff "Piney" Lewis


I'm gpoing to disagree with you here. "Quantity has a quality all it's own"

Within a class of weapons the ability to deploy enough items so that it is effective is important. The Sherman/T34 v Panther is a very good example of this. While neither one can match the Panther one on one they were able to compete because both could be produced in volume and deployed and supported so that they were always available in useful quantities while Panthers were never available in enough quantity to keep the units up to strength

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

- bsmart
- piney
where I have a disagreement with this series (Tanks, ships ,bombers, rifles, etc) is that it uses a quantity factor as the basis for deciding a quality factor. If an item is absolutely the best of it's kind, it is just that, whether they produced a single one or 15 million. By that criterion an old four stack, flush deck US destroyer is a greater warship that an Iowa class battleship. To me,the top ten should be the ten best qualativly not numericaly

my two cents

Jeff "Piney" Lewis


I'm gpoing to disagree with you here. "Quantity has a quality all it's own"

Within a class of weapons the ability to deploy enough items so that it is effective is important. The Sherman/T34 v Panther is a very good example of this. While neither one can match the Panther one on one they were able to compete because both could be produced in volume and deployed and supported so that they were always available in useful quantities while Panthers were never available in enough quantity to keep the units up to strength



To add to Bob's point...
And how long were Panthers in service? With how many countries? Built under license where (whether in it's original designation or in a close copy with slight modification and a "name change")? Embraced by how many other services (voluntarily, as opposed to, say, some Warsaw Pact examples) for a variety of roles because of it's versatility and longevity?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

IIRC this show is about the most 'successful' vehicles, not the best. In that sense, yeah - you could very easily argue that the M113 is the most successful APC. How many wars has it been in? How many countries use it? How many were made. It may be mediocre as an AFV, but it's still wildly successful.
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

yes dontos, thank you, take a deep breathe....
that is all just part of the generation of power before one exhales and puts your fist thru your opponents chest...

no, you are right. but as i had mentioned, it is a show for entertainment value above all else... still gets me aggravated (MHO aside).

i can agree the vehicle has had a very successful life and has done very well. it doesnt fit into the number 1 slot using their contradictory criteria for the basis of their show. the high marks they gave the BMP (survivability, striking power/armament, protection! easily produced) had the M113 beat from the get go... the BMP was like #6. the universal carrier was 7 or 8(?), the M3 halftrack 9(?)...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

I'd never consider the BMP, especially the BMP-1 to be a successful AFV. Revolutionary, yes - to an extent. It's got a piss poor armament system - basically a 73mm RPG with terrible accuracy, an AT-3 system that hardly ever worked properly, let alone effectively, had fuel tanks in the door, magnesium armor... the list goes on. I certainly wouldn't call it an effective or successful vehicle. I bet if you go back in time and check out the kill/loss ratios for BMPs you'd find that they've died a whole lot more than they've killed, even discounting the hundreds that the US and UK have wrecked over time.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

- SHAWN

okay, now i have lost it! the MC ranks the M113 as the "the greatest infantry fighting vehicle of all time"!!!
it is a refrigerator!!
it is made out of aluminum!!!
it is a taxi!!


It is a refrigerator? All amored vehicles without good heaters are refrigerators.

It is made out of aluminum? So what?
The aluminum is equal to a level of steel protection that the Army was looking for when that vehicle was developed.
They found that the aluminum vehicle was something like 600 pounds lighter that one made out of steel with an equal level of protection. Total weight was very important when that vehicle was layout.

It is a taxi? I would not call my ACAVs from Vietnam taxis. The term Infantry Fighting vehicle does fit that mission profile.

Taxi is a doctrine/mission on how a vehicle is used.

Would I rate the M113 as the world's best IFV? Maybe not, but it would be near the top if it was not number one.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: M113 #1?????

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

- SHAWN

okay, now i have lost it! the MC ranks the M113 as the "the greatest infantry fighting vehicle of all time"!!!
it is a refrigerator!!
it is made out of aluminum!!!
it is a taxi!!


It is a refrigerator? All amored vehicles without good heaters are refrigerators.

It is made out of aluminum? So what?
The aluminum is equal to a level of steel protection that the Army was looking for when that vehicle was developed.
They found that the aluminum vehicle was something like 600 pounds lighter that one made out of steel with an equal level of protection. Total weight was very important when that vehicle was layout.

It is a taxi? I would not call my ACAVs from Vietnam taxis. The term Infantry Fighting vehicle does fit that mission profile.

Taxi is a doctrine/mission on how a vehicle is used.

Would I rate the M113 as the world's best IFV? Maybe not, but it would be near the top if it was not number one.
My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!


What Roy said, but with emphasis on the part in bold, I'd amend/add to say it was all the more remarkable because it wasn't designed to be an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, but was adapted to be one in it's prime, and served that mission with distinction.

Yes, we have some some bias with that regard, but we have some personal experience on which to base it. If I'm not mistaken, Roy came to the M113 as a Cav Scout, but I came to it with the background of a tanker, which gave me even more grounds of skepticism, if you will. I was impressed with the way the vehicle fulfilled it's role and was completely comfortable with it (and I might point out that I was offered command of an M551 Sheridan when I reported to Phu Loi, but declined it in favor of an M113, though I'd never been on one before).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum