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Panzer salvage in Bulgaria
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:43 am
Post subject: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

There's been quite a fuzz over this on many other armor forums. So I thought it was about time I introduced it here with assorted images and links Smile

A Jagdpanzer IV, tracks were cut of during salvage, it still has the gearbox in place:

Link%20to%20more%20interior%20shots: Jagdpanzer%20IV%20interior. 2%20StuG's%20and%20at%20least%203%20Panzer%20IV's.%20The%20vehicle%20in%20the%20foreground%20is%20a%20Panzer%20IV%20rearmed%20with%20a%20SU-76%20ZIS-3%20gun%20in%20an%20open%20top%20turret: %20%20 This%20is%20the%20first%20I've%20seen%20and%20heard%20of%20this%20variation,%20intriguing!

Check out many, many, many more pictures at the links provided at this thread over at Wehrmacht Awards:

Bulgarian Panzer Salvage Thread

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Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
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fitzday
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:31 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

In the 4th pic with the rearmed PzIV, can anyone make out what the far 2 vehicles are behind the 3 PzIVs. Could possibly be 3 vehicles but I can't tell for sure. I know there are also some T34/85 turrets from this same defense instillation that the panzers are from but I'm not aware of any of them being salvaged yet.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

Maybe this could be a reply to your question :

This is a rough list I was able to do by comparing the different photos we can find on the web (post edited with new information) :

There are 2 StuG IIIs bottom hulls, of which many running gear parts could be salvaged to restore other wrecks. I don't know if these wrecks will be recovered.
StuG hull n°1
StuG hull n°2
There are also 6 Panzer IV bottom hull and there are also some interesting spare parts on these, but I also don't know if they will be recovered..
hull 1
hull 2
hull 3
hull 4
hull 5
hull 6

P-O

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Last edited by the_shadock on Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:48 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

It looks like there are 2 (two) Pz IV turrets modified for the ZIS-3 gun, the first and second image don't really match.

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:30 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

Yes, you are right, I was also thinking that these are 2 different ones.

More links (post edited for additions and corrections) :
Pz IV n°1 (recovered and stored on a military base)
Pz IV n°2 (recovered and stored on a military base)
Pz IV n°3 (recovered and stored on a military base)
Pz IV n°4 (MG)
Pz IV n°5 (MG)
Pz IV n°6 (MG)
Pz IV n°7 (MG)
Pz IV n°8 (MG)
Pz IV n°9 (MG)
Pz IV n°10 (MG)
Pz IV n° 11 to 17 (recovered)
Pz IV n° 18 (w/o gun)
Pz IV with ZiS n°1
Pz IV with ZiS n°2 (recovered and stored on a military base)

possibly a Panzer IV turret
another Panzer IV turret
I don't know if the hulls are buried with these 2 turrets..

StuG n°1
StuG n°2
StuG n°3 (recovered and stored on a military base)
StuG n°4 (recovered and stored on a military base)
StuG n°5 (recovered)
StuG n°6 (this time a real different one !!)
StuG n°7 (w/o gun)

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Last edited by the_shadock on Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:06 pm; edited 7 times in total
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fitzday
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:20 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

Is that list including the 2 turrets which looks to be from pz IVs that are almost totally buried and missing their main gun.

www.airgroup2000.com/f...6&start=75

www.scalemodels-bg.com...&start=255

There's also pics of the 2 pzI turrets at the front of this thread. It also has pics of the t34/85 turret emplacements.

www.scalemodels-bg.com...&start=315
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clausb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

- fitzday
There's also pics of the 2 pzI turrets at the front of this thread. It also has pics of the t34/85 turret emplacements.

www.scalemodels-bg.com...;start=315


If it is the turret(s) on page 1, then I'm pretty sure they are from Denmark. If you look at the fauna, it is completely different from the other tanks and looks a lot like the type of grass found in dunes near the coast.

cbo
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

(Going to a Bulgarian supermarket and asking to a seller)

"Well, I would like to get a dozen of Panzer IV, please"



I think it is useless now to do a precise list.. there are too many of them !!!

P-O

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fitzday
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

Definately more than any of the previous pictures in the other forums would lead you to believe. OUTSTANDING!! Now can we just hope for the odd panther or two to turn up.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

for these who haven't seen, the 2 rough lists with links I made in this topic were updated. Now I count at least 20 different Panzer IV + 2 possible turrets and 7 different StuG. Everyday, new pictures of tanks from the Bulgarian defense line are posted on a bulgarian forum, and everyday new tanks show up. That's really incredible !!

I think that we'll never see such a photo with 7 Panzer IV side by side !! (unless all the tanks are gathered if they are put for sale, which would most likely make the biggest German WW2 tanks gathering since years !!)

P-O

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria



On this picture I count 16 different vehicles, including most probably the 7 Panzer IV seen in a field.. maybe the biggest Panzer gathering since a while!!

P-O

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fitzday
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

I counted 17 when i zoomed in in paintshop. You can just barely see the top of one behind the roof at the top of the storage lot. I believe thats also a t34 turret behind the jagdpanzer IV. Got to wonder how many more are hidden from view.
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A2_Prius
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

What a lineup! Makes me wonder whether a panzer kompanie simply abandoned its vehicles during a retreat. Is there any chance of unit identification being found on the hulks?

- the_shadock
(Going to a Bulgarian supermarket and asking to a seller)

"Well, I would like to get a dozen of Panzer IV, please"



I think it is useless now to do a precise list.. there are too many of them !!!

P-O
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fitzday
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

Correct me if i'm wrong, Shadock. These panzers were transfered to the Bulgarian army after the war by the Soviets from stocks of captured panzers. They were used until they could be replaced by Soviet manufactured tanks. They were then dug in on the Bulgarian/Turkish border as improvised pillboxes.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Panzer salvage in Bulgaria

- A2_Prius
What a lineup! Makes me wonder whether a panzer kompanie simply abandoned its vehicles during a retreat. Is there any chance of unit identification being found on the hulks?


Well, some serial numbers/identification plates and markings were found inside the tank and photographed by "Valko-BG".
Check thids page and you'll see what I mean. There are several other photos with plates and SNs on this particular thread..

http://www.scalemodels-bg.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=136&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=345&sid=fa79b6c7ead40f56f25e3919f739145f



From these plates you should find a unit.. this was done with the 3 Panzer IIIs from Bardufoss.

P-O

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