±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 168
Total: 168
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Member Screenshots
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Home
15: Home
16: Home
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: News
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Community Forums
35: News Archive
36: Photo Gallery
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: News
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Statistics
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Your Account
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: CPGlang
64: CPGlang
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Your Account
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Member Screenshots
99: Home
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Your Account
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Member Screenshots
115: Member Screenshots
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Downloads
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Your Account
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: News Archive
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: CPGlang
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Member Screenshots
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Your Account
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: News Archive
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:32 am
Post subject: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

On May the 18th the last 4 shots with a Dutch Leopard 2 were fired marking the end of 400 years heavy cavalry in the NLD.

The first two shots were fired (almost Wink ) simultaneously by the regimental commanders of van Sytzama and Prince of Orange followed by a shot by the commander of the cavalryschool and at last the GenMaj of the cavalry bd Jhr. J.H. de Jonge.


Regimental commander of van Sytzama mounting the tank for the last shot of the regiment.


On the left Prince of Orange en on the right van Sytzama. The tanks were from the Cavalryschool.


Commander of the cavalryschool firing (right)


And the last shot fired from the commandersplace by the genmaj de Jonge




Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:37 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav


Both regiments at range 6 for the ceremony



The standards of both regiments arriving at range 6
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:38 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Did they hit?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Targets were between the 1200 - 1800 meters (target nr 59) and were all hits. Some commanders let the gunner fire. The general fired in the modus ''Kommandant fuhrt hauptwaffe''/KH-HZF. And yes, it were four real hits.
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

I take it the Dutch are not abandoning armored forces but putting them under a different organizational title?

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

No Kurt, the Netherlands is getting out of the tank business:
www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/...z1Mzsm9QGa

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Remarkably short-sighted I think.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Please respect FT.com, use this link - www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3


Dutch tank crews take aim at cutbacks
By Matt Steinglass in Oirschot

Published: April 29 2011 01:56

Hundreds of soldiers in a mechanised brigade protested at military spending cuts that will leave the Netherlands with no main battle tanks for the first time since the second world war and could restrict the country’s role in future international military interventions.

The protest on Thursday, part of a wave of opposition among the Dutch military, was aimed at cutbacks announced this month that will reduce defence spending from €8.5bn ($12.6bn) this year to €7.5bn in 2015, eliminating 12,000 of the armed forces’ 59,000 personnel. The air force will lose 19 of its 87 F-16 fighter jets and the navy four of its 10 minesweepers.

It is like a death in the family,” said an officer, who asked to remain anonymous. “We are still in mourning.”

Like defence cuts elsewhere in Europe, the Dutch move comes as the Libyan conflict is calling into question the European Union’s ability to fulfil its military ambitions.

Other western powers consider the Dutch military small but highly effective. The Dutch Air Force has six F-16s enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya, while Dutch naval frigates conduct anti-piracy patrols off of Somalia.

The Netherlands has taken part in interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo and Bosnia.

Mark Rutte, prime minister, said the Dutch would continue to play a role in international missions, but the cuts would limit participation to shorter time periods.

The Dutch military was the quickest in Europe to transform itself into a leaner force after the end of the cold war – 45 per cent of the armed forces consists of combat units, compared with only 18 per cent in the German and Belgian militaries. As a result, Dutch defence cuts will have a greater affect on operational abilities than those in Germany and Belgium, says Kees Homan of the Netherlands Institute of International Relations Clingendael.

At the tank crews’ protest in Oirschot, near Eindhoven, many soldiers echoed that analysis. The base is home to one of the Netherlands’ two tank battalions, both of which are to be scrapped and their 60 Leopard 2 tanks sold.

“The government wants a ‘multiply deployable’ armed forces,” said Colonel Burg Valk, referring to a government strategy document calling for a flexible military suited to various kinds of conflicts. “For that kind of military, tanks are still essential.”

In an early draft of a letter about the cuts, Hans Hillen, defence minister, initially admitted that “the Netherlands’ security threatens to become underinsured”. It was revealed that Mr Hillen later edited out the line.

However, the greatest barriers to Dutch participation in missions may be political, not military.

The previous coalition government fell in 2010 when the Labour party refused to support the occupation of Afghanistan. Mr Rutte’s government needed co-operation from the opposition GreenLeft party to win approval for a small mission to train policemen in Afghanistan.

But concern over capabilities comes partly because the Dutch military has radically downsized.

Defence outlays have shrunk from 2.7 per cent of gross domestic product in 1990 to 1.4 per cent in 2010.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
Please respect FT.com, use this link - www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3


Dutch tank crews take aim at cutbacks
By Matt Steinglass in Oirschot

Published: April 29 2011 01:56

Hundreds of soldiers in a mechanised brigade protested at military spending cuts that will leave the Netherlands with no main battle tanks for the first time since the second world war and could restrict the country’s role in future international military interventions.


Cause or effect?....you be the judge.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

The link www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3 kept diverting me to things that don't matter so I will only ask (plead) why not keep just one of battalions?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

There is no military reason behind it, just money. The government wants to cut back the defense budget with a billion euro's and shutting down a complete weapon system was one way to get quick money.

Personally I would cut in the navy (submarines) and air force (patriot and not buying JSFs) and cutting on development aid and development assistance. After 30 years of throwing money to poor countries they are still poor and the leadership rich..

I'am afraid NLD tankers will go the way of the dinosaurs... Over 10 years soldiers will say ''look he was already in the army when they still had tanks. The other will say, whats a tank.....
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Lesley:
Over 10 years soldiers will say ''look he was already in the army when they still had tanks. The other will say, whats a tank.....


I was at Fort Riley Kansas a little while ago visiting a very good friend before he shipped off (A-Stan this time). Spent some time in their Motor Pool during tank turn in since they are going without them (His 3rd deployment, none with tanks). He and another Platoon Sergeant both talked about how little they actually use their tanks in training once back from deployment. They had M1A1SA's and after 3 years from receiving them they still looked brand new. They both talked about the days of when they actually tanked. I kinda laughed and said "Remember, I complained then". That was compared to the "Cold War" days.

At least they still have their tanks, even if they don't use them much. Sorry for the loss Lesley, I can't imagine what I'd do if the US Army had eliminated tanks while I was still serving on them. Be almost like a death in the family. The worst part is once you eliminate a requirement (Expensive one at that), it is very hard to convince the powers that be to bring it back, even it it is needed. The loss of institutional knowledge gets greater too with each passing year. They really need to consider keeping some "Core" or "Cadre" to maintain that, even if it's just a Company sized element.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Hello Joe,
Thanks!
That was the feeling there, being at a funeral. A lot of people had tears in their eyes, including myself.

Tanked for 15 years, 10 years in the same coy, 2 years at the cav school and 3 years in the battalion staff, all in the same battalion. Spending a equally time in the field and at home with the wife. So the unit is kind of family.

In the evening there was a bbq with lots of beer and even more stories about the happy days, crashed tanks, tanks sunken in mud, exercises which went wrong (or good) and the deployments to Bosnia (with tanks) and Iraq and Afghanistan (without tanks).

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

A sad day, indeed.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum