±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 621
Total: 621
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Downloads
09: Photo Gallery
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Home
46: Downloads
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: CPGlang
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Photo Gallery
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Home
89: Downloads
90: CPGlang
91: Photo Gallery
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Your Account
120: Community Forums
121: Member Screenshots
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Home
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Downloads
148: Home
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Downloads
155: Photo Gallery
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: CPGlang
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: CPGlang
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Member Screenshots
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Downloads
190: Photo Gallery
191: Home
192: Photo Gallery
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: CPGlang
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: CPGlang
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Photo Gallery
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Your Account
233: CPGlang
234: Downloads
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: CPGlang
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: CPGlang
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: News Archive
249: Your Account
250: Home
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Home
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Home
258: Home
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: Home
265: Photo Gallery
266: Photo Gallery
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: CPGlang
274: Home
275: Downloads
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: CPGlang
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: News
284: Your Account
285: Home
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Your Account
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Your Account
309: CPGlang
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Home
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Downloads
321: Community Forums
322: CPGlang
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Member Screenshots
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: CPGlang
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Member Screenshots
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Photo Gallery
352: Photo Gallery
353: CPGlang
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Photo Gallery
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Downloads
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Photo Gallery
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: CPGlang
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Downloads
396: Your Account
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Your Account
411: Downloads
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Photo Gallery
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: CPGlang
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Your Account
435: Your Account
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: News
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Home
474: Home
475: Member Screenshots
476: Downloads
477: Home
478: Member Screenshots
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Downloads
483: Home
484: Home
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Statistics
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Downloads
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Photo Gallery
500: Statistics
501: Member Screenshots
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: CPGlang
506: Community Forums
507: CPGlang
508: CPGlang
509: CPGlang
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Your Account
554: Downloads
555: Statistics
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Member Screenshots
572: Home
573: Your Account
574: Photo Gallery
575: Photo Gallery
576: Community Forums
577: Downloads
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Home
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Statistics
597: Community Forums
598: Member Screenshots
599: Community Forums
600: Your Account
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: News
606: Home
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Member Screenshots
612: Community Forums
613: CPGlang
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Your Account
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
T95 / T96 rehash
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

Try this one, I just amended from 2 documents:



My head is beginning to hurt. Wink

ah, but I do so love a challange....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,

I always believed the T95 can be traced as the root to the modern FCS in the M1 if your really dig deep. Even OPTAR, the pre-curser to the laser range finder is linked in with it. Truth be said, most of what the M1 is, was developed long before the GM Chrysler showdown ever happened with the MBT70, M60A2, and T95 series. The decision to go with who made the tank was mostly political, since the Army would tell who ever got the contract what they really wanted once congress gave approval.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Neil_Baumgardner
You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil


I'm working on some earlier dated material, which I'll add columns for each to keep the confusion to a minimum. All my notes, are from documents. Stuff seems to be bouncing around, but this will clear once I can organize it. (hopefully...!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Dontos
- JG300-Ascout

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?


The turret has the XM81, 152mm gun system. I believe it is the development 'chain' to the M60A2 turret system.

T95 (test rig) in the LST is THAT configuration. Trying to dig up stuff on it.

Don


I thought as much, but didn't see it on the "chart". Thought I recognized it. Wink

Doesn't the one from the LST building have an M60A1E2/A2 turret on it, though? Just an extension of the program?

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is another flow chart (if you can read the 'chicken scratch')



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

I'm looking at a Sept 1957 note of future chassis deliveries for the project. It includes additional 'NEW' chassis #s:

# 10 Nov 1957
# 11 Dec 1957
# 12 Jan 1958

its quoting 'Pre-Production Pilots of M48A2/T95' (gotta dig this one up & hope it'll be able to give some indepth info.)

Why do I do this to myself...?? (You could have warned me.... Wink

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Ummm... How many times have I mentioned before that the T95 series seems very hard to discern? Wink

Thanks though!

Again, keep an eye for any reference to serial numbers... I'm not convinced they're the same thing as chassis numbers...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:34 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Neil_Baumgardner
Ummm... How many times have I mentioned before that the T95 series seems very hard to discern? Wink

Thanks though!

Again, keep an eye for any reference to serial numbers... I'm not convinced they're the same thing as chassis numbers...

Neil


I think that Chassis # is the SN for these prototypes. BUT,....the confusion partially stems from annotations of turret #'s. I'm seeing such references, and initially mistook it for chassis #'s. The fact that the chassis #'s don't seem to match any sequential order for the RN's is confusing though. (luckily the chassis #'s are welded on the hull, not just stamped on the tow eyelets)

So far chassis #'s are matching up with RN's, even thru some of the upgrade rebuilds, but there are some serious 'gray' areas.

I'm on the uphill climb on a learning curve. (just wish it wouldn't 'zig-zag' sooo much...!!)

Time for bed,....I have a headache.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,
Big problem with chassis #s vs serial #s. Take the Knox LST T95. From what I remember there's photo evidence (I'll need to recheck the JMO article) that its 9B1051 Chassis #6 - but it has SN 8 under the front hull.

We've already been down the chassis # vs serial # path on these before and decided there wasnt an obvious correlation... Unfortunately...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Actually from my pictures of the Weirton T95 it appears that the serial number is cast into the hull. Now whether we are calling that the Chassis number or the Serial number is open for discussion (and whether it is the vehicle serial number or the Hull casting serial number) but the number under the front of the hull is labeled SER NO

Maybe we need to step back and confirm what information we have on each known vehicle and the source for the information. I have a fear that some of the information that we believe has been cross checked is subject to circular references.

I've always found it annoying that the army has two different tracking numbers for each vehicle (RN and SN) and isn't consistent in how it marks and with how much permanancy that marking has. Why the RN isn't recorded permanently on each vehicle Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad is beyond me. It is almost like they want the system to be confusing so that individual vehicles can't be tracked.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Hey everyone,

Food for thought,

1, Those cast SER-NO does not mean serial number, but series number by the outfit who cast the steel. Case in point is the recently posted Ash Flat AR M47 and the use of it for the SN.

2, The Army assigns Registration Numbers only, and depending on what year the tank was made determines what system it used. A big old mess is what it is with M60's since they stayed in production so long.

3, Serial Numbers are assigned by the manufacturer. In my opinion the best way to track a tank. Since it transcends branches of the Military (Army and Marines) and Countries, and BTW, are hull generated, even though turrets data plates usually match the hull.

As far as the T95 goes, I went over the example at Fort McCoy when up there and could not find any stamping for a SN anywhere, if there was one it has long since been painted over or wore off where ever it is. The cast mark on the hull is SER-12, and the M48 turret is SER-29. Manufacturer is American Steel Foundries, East Chicago Indiana Works. If you could locate a -10 or -20 of the T95 maybe it shows the external SN or RN location in the Stowage and Sign Guide section. Most manuals back then did.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:28 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Joe D,
Good points, many thanks. Because the T95s are SOO different, and it was the only "serial number" we could find, I thought that perhaps these cast numbers were indeed the actual SNs.

Don, do you have access to these -10 or -20s?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Thanks Joe

but about the RNs I know on M60s we often find them stamped on the bow near the headlight but in general on most vehicles I think they are just painted/decaled on and disappear when the vehicle gets repainted

And some vehicles don't seem to have any permanent external marking. I can see that on a test vehicle like the T95 but on M114s or M48s.

I guess I'm used to aircraft where each one was known by a 'tail number' which was created when the aircraft was ordered and followed it in all records and marked in expected places on the airplane.

Would there be -10s or -20s on T series vehicles or would those only be produced when a vehicle was standardised as an M series?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Bob,

Another good example of not having an external SN stamping are the M42 "Dusters", unless you count the plates found welded on the rear.

The PV M1's are also not stamped with any external numbers IIRC. Leads to much confusion there too.

There should be some TM's for the T95 series and they should be written just like the standard ones for the Tanks of that period. Just like there were TM's for the M60A1E1/A1E2 and MBT-70/XM803, the former eventually being type classified M60A2. I would imagine some archive should have them, either Knox or Aberdeen. Manufacturers generally destroy/dump stuff like that if the system isn't purchased, and besides, since the development is usually taxpayer funded it tends to be turned over to the military and belongs to Uncle Sam.

Don, better get your "Indiana Jones" hat on and start researching the "Catacombs" of Fort Knox Wink .

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum