±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 611
Total: 611
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: News Archive
22: Community Forums
23: Downloads
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Statistics
63: Photo Gallery
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Your Account
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Your Account
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Your Account
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Statistics
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Your Account
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Downloads
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: News Archive
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Downloads
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Statistics
153: Your Account
154: CPGlang
155: Photo Gallery
156: Downloads
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Downloads
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Downloads
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Your Account
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Your Account
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: CPGlang
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Statistics
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: CPGlang
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Member Screenshots
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: CPGlang
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Downloads
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Downloads
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Your Account
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: News Archive
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Member Screenshots
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Your Account
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Photo Gallery
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Statistics
347: Home
348: Photo Gallery
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: News Archive
368: Downloads
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: CPGlang
389: Downloads
390: Downloads
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: CPGlang
398: Your Account
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Statistics
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Downloads
432: Your Account
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Photo Gallery
452: Downloads
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Statistics
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: News
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Downloads
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Photo Gallery
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Member Screenshots
500: Community Forums
501: Your Account
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Downloads
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: CPGlang
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: CPGlang
526: Downloads
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: Downloads
545: Community Forums
546: Your Account
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Member Screenshots
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Your Account
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Photo Gallery
573: CPGlang
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Downloads
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: Photo Gallery
605: Downloads
606: Photo Gallery
607: Photo Gallery
608: Downloads
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

OK, I'm a Sherman nut and don't follow the panzers very closely. What are the basic differences between a Hetzer and a G13? Were the G13s all WW2 production or are they post war?

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

If a Hetzer is still carrying all its Swiss modifications, then it is a G-13, if it has been back dated to its original configuration, it is once again a Hetzer.


Maybe in this case it becomes an ST-1? Laughing

If a Sherman is modified or rebuilt after the war


While I see your point, G-13s were build after the war, not modified or rebuilt, and they were never called "Hetzer".
You may consider this mostly a matter of semantic and think it's irrelevant, and I not necessarily disagree with you, but it's a somewhat different case than a rebuild Sherman.

Massimo

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

The link in Don's post is gone. Here is the new link. www.armorfortheages.co...taPage.htm

Garry

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch


I will start the show Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

The post WW2 G13 had an muzzle brake fitted, the original WW2 Hetzer did not have an muzzle brake

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

G13 & Hetzer have different crew layouts as well...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

When i restored our Hetzer I was able to find no proof of Hetzers being built after WW2, Battle damaged and abandoned vehicles were brought back to the factory to be repaired, the hulls on the assembly line were finished, but new production vehicles??? when restoring our hetzer back to original, i found all the original mounting points for everything the Swiss removed, including the mounting points for the STG 44's in the interior, Waffen marks all over the vehicle, original tan color on the hull. I agree this is a blurry debate.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo


This point is actually very clear, being post-WW2
During WW2 all German Hetzer where equipt with PaK 39 canon and this barrel did not have the option to mount an muzzel brake

The feature of the muzzle brake came from the StuK 40 that was intended to be used on the StuG III

This also means that

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13


is still true

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Michel_Krauss
Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel


I was, of course, referring to those extant today... There are hardly any G13 around

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Full's Museum has both a G-13 and a G-14. Same for Fort Pré-Giroud. Thun has one G-13 in static display and at least one G-13 among the runners.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Based on the numbers there is an 46% change that vehicle will be an G-13 and 54% change that it is an G-14

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

It could have been used non-official to make an difference between the 2 type's

The military is good at doing that Wink

Let's get back to topic.
I found an site of the Swiss National Militia Museum with on short history of the G-13 / G-14
When I know what they are telling I will make an new post

It has to do what was bought when, which years, WW2 production or new, etc

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Massimo_Foti
About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo


It appears on the new G14 manuals (rare) but not on the G13 manuals amended to cover the G14.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

I am not surprised. It's not unlike the Pz 39/LTL-H, half of then use an original gasoline engine, the other half a diesel engine, and the name remained the same

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum