±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6646

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 166
Total: 166
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: CPGlang
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: CPGlang
10: CPGlang
11: CPGlang
12: CPGlang
13: Home
14: Your Account
15: Downloads
16: CPGlang
17: CPGlang
18: CPGlang
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: CPGlang
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: CPGlang
27: Community Forums
28: CPGlang
29: CPGlang
30: CPGlang
31: Downloads
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: CPGlang
35: Community Forums
36: CPGlang
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: CPGlang
48: CPGlang
49: CPGlang
50: CPGlang
51: Community Forums
52: CPGlang
53: CPGlang
54: Home
55: CPGlang
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: News Archive
66: CPGlang
67: Photo Gallery
68: CPGlang
69: CPGlang
70: CPGlang
71: CPGlang
72: Downloads
73: Member Screenshots
74: Community Forums
75: CPGlang
76: CPGlang
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: CPGlang
80: CPGlang
81: Community Forums
82: CPGlang
83: Home
84: Downloads
85: CPGlang
86: Photo Gallery
87: CPGlang
88: CPGlang
89: Home
90: CPGlang
91: CPGlang
92: Search
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: CPGlang
98: CPGlang
99: CPGlang
100: Community Forums
101: CPGlang
102: CPGlang
103: CPGlang
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Community Forums
110: CPGlang
111: CPGlang
112: Community Forums
113: CPGlang
114: CPGlang
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: CPGlang
122: CPGlang
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: CPGlang
126: Your Account
127: CPGlang
128: CPGlang
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: Community Forums
133: CPGlang
134: Community Forums
135: CPGlang
136: CPGlang
137: Home
138: CPGlang
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: CPGlang
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: CPGlang
147: CPGlang
148: CPGlang
149: CPGlang
150: Community Forums
151: CPGlang
152: CPGlang
153: Community Forums
154: CPGlang
155: CPGlang
156: CPGlang
157: Photo Gallery
158: CPGlang
159: Community Forums
160: CPGlang
161: CPGlang
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: CPGlang
165: Community Forums
166: CPGlang

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

OK, I'm a Sherman nut and don't follow the panzers very closely. What are the basic differences between a Hetzer and a G13? Were the G13s all WW2 production or are they post war?

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

If a Hetzer is still carrying all its Swiss modifications, then it is a G-13, if it has been back dated to its original configuration, it is once again a Hetzer.


Maybe in this case it becomes an ST-1? Laughing

If a Sherman is modified or rebuilt after the war


While I see your point, G-13s were build after the war, not modified or rebuilt, and they were never called "Hetzer".
You may consider this mostly a matter of semantic and think it's irrelevant, and I not necessarily disagree with you, but it's a somewhat different case than a rebuild Sherman.

Massimo

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

The link in Don's post is gone. Here is the new link. www.armorfortheages.co...taPage.htm

Garry

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch


I will start the show Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

The post WW2 G13 had an muzzle brake fitted, the original WW2 Hetzer did not have an muzzle brake

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

G13 & Hetzer have different crew layouts as well...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

When i restored our Hetzer I was able to find no proof of Hetzers being built after WW2, Battle damaged and abandoned vehicles were brought back to the factory to be repaired, the hulls on the assembly line were finished, but new production vehicles??? when restoring our hetzer back to original, i found all the original mounting points for everything the Swiss removed, including the mounting points for the STG 44's in the interior, Waffen marks all over the vehicle, original tan color on the hull. I agree this is a blurry debate.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo


This point is actually very clear, being post-WW2
During WW2 all German Hetzer where equipt with PaK 39 canon and this barrel did not have the option to mount an muzzel brake

The feature of the muzzle brake came from the StuK 40 that was intended to be used on the StuG III

This also means that

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13


is still true

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Michel_Krauss
Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel


I was, of course, referring to those extant today... There are hardly any G13 around

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Full's Museum has both a G-13 and a G-14. Same for Fort Pré-Giroud. Thun has one G-13 in static display and at least one G-13 among the runners.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Based on the numbers there is an 46% change that vehicle will be an G-13 and 54% change that it is an G-14

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

It could have been used non-official to make an difference between the 2 type's

The military is good at doing that Wink

Let's get back to topic.
I found an site of the Swiss National Militia Museum with on short history of the G-13 / G-14
When I know what they are telling I will make an new post

It has to do what was bought when, which years, WW2 production or new, etc

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Massimo_Foti
About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo


It appears on the new G14 manuals (rare) but not on the G13 manuals amended to cover the G14.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

I am not surprised. It's not unlike the Pz 39/LTL-H, half of then use an original gasoline engine, the other half a diesel engine, and the name remained the same

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum