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JG300-Ascout · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

It's almost incredible anybody survived that was still behind in NO. Less that 1/3rd of the formerly 1,500 strong NO police force remains on the job. We're talking about badges turned in or refusing to report. One of the most shameful performances in a uniformed service on record. I grieve for the citizens, not least of all because of their "police" force.
DoD transcript follows....
www.defenselink.mil/tr...-3850.html

Shadow_Banshee · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 575

well its dificult , we gotta remember these officers also had there houses torn appart and families dispersed, i should imagine some are leaving with family to help out n stuff, one thing i dont uderstand is the need for army to go in gunned up to the max, there are some problems out there but not a riot? surley carrying arms etc is not the best way to be helping people out.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:12 am Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

I have also to consider that the officers in, say, NYC had NO warnings, and ran into a highly dangerous situation to very often die trying to serve the public.

The Army had to go in and do what that dingbat governor wouldn't, restore order. Loss of order is something that is established in the first 24-48 hours and the failure to respond at the state level is what made the stronger response necessary. I'd say going in "gunned up to the max" is more than warranted when looting, rape, murder and "citizens" shooting at the Corps of Engineers and rescuers has become commonplace and actually interfers with the relief effort. Had the "shoot to kill" order been issued earlier, there'd have been a lot less of that. Then again, failure to accept at least two earlier offers of bus caravans out of the city would have reduced at least the number of victims, if not the criminal element.

Unless you think those trying to "help people out" should do so while dodging bullets fired with impunity by a bunch of orcs.

Some of approximately 200 school buses in one lot not put to use by local government for evacuation during the warning period:
news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1109012015

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

Awaiting confirmation, but initial reports state the Nat'l D-Day Museum was looted and vandalized, though it was above the flood zone.
www.cronaca.com/archiv...03775.html

RAF92_Mustang · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

- JG300-Ascout

Awaiting confirmation, but initial reports state the Nat'l D-Day Museum was looted and vandalized, though it was above the flood zone.
www.cronaca.com/archiv...03775.html

If I didnt think it was out of hand already.... Sad

IMS_JoseCuervo · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

I must echo your sentiments 100% Ascout. You proved every point with fact and detail. Well done. S~

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:37 am Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

Why you go in "gunned up to the max" (from NOLA, the New Orleans LA official website itself, as reported by CNN)
___________________________________________________________
"Report: Police shoot gunmen
Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on contractors crossing a bridge to make levee repairs, The Associated Press reported.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley told AP that police shot at eight people who had guns, killing five or six.

The incident came as the growing number of authorities attempted to regain control of the flooded city after days of violence and looting that interfered with rescue and recovery efforts.

The Army Corps of Engineers told AP that 14 contractors escorted by police were fired upon while crossing the Danziger Bridge, which spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

Corps spokesman John Hall told AP the contractors were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help fix a breach in the 17th Street Canal.

Initial AP reports had wrongly indicated that the contractors themselves were shot by police.

At the 17th Street Canal, crews worked to close a 500-foot breach of a levee that allowed Lake Pontchartrain to flood parts of New Orleans.

But that breach and another on the London Canal were being left open because water was draining back into the lake. Officials said that once they can get the New Orleans pumping stations running it will take at least 36 days to drain the city.

www.cnn.com/2005/US/09...index.html

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

And here is exactly what Nagin DIDN'T do.:

From the LOUISIANA EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN (PDF),

www.ohsep.louisiana.go...ment1a.pdf

Page 13, read paragraph 5. It states:

5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.

And page 18, paragraph 2a 2 and 3.

2. Recommended Evacuation:
a. Risk Area Parishes:
1. Put EOC on 24-hour operations.
2. Mobilize parish/local transportation to assist persons who lack transportation or who have mobility problems.
3. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs.

Also see Page 20, paragraph 3a 5.

Page 21, paragraph c 4.

Page 29, all of it.

What a criminally negiligent and incompetent a$$hat. The next person that blames FEMA or Bush should be made to eat the entire LOUISIANA EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN, all of it.

Shadow_Banshee · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 575

New Orleans is a major city, surely on a daily basis theres more murders rapes in one day than ocoured the entire 9 days of this crisis, so why send in thousands of armed troops who are so heavily laden with kit are virtually unable to deal out any help to rescue?

my point is this, the press and news show scattered reports of violence, occasional shooting in the proximity of helos"i personaly would be pissed if a helo passed me by and would probable fire to draw attention" i have continously watched news networks US and UK and dont see the evidence, sure some took advantage but the majority sat it out waiting on help.

Also point taken rescue efforts need the backup of armed police or troops but not on mass as to outweigh it. but can anyone justify that on the first few days water and food was not dropped?
i feel it bad to see blame cast on a city and police force OUTSTRETCHED every single one of these people suffered katrina their house and in some cases family lost, no one could expect more.

the small amount of lowlifes obviously need to be sorted, and a shoot to kill looter policy should be allowed for none esental goods, but do we fire on people looting water and food when no aid is reaching them? i think not!
Need to cast blame? This is a natural catastrophy and probably not the last, its up to Goverments to get the right action in place as fast as possible, no one could have predicted the aftermath, you can cast some blame on mismanagment maybe, but in the end its a lesson learned.

I say dig deep and give what you can afford, i am not from USA but have donated, even small amounts help.

Take care BANSHEE.....

thing is can you trust anyone called Bush lol...j/k jerry

Combat · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 06, 2005 Posts: 1035

Unfortunately there are many out there that will try and spin this to be Bush's fault. Especially CNN. I also agree that the first finger pointed for any lack of leadership here, should be pointed toward the state and local government of LA and N.O.

I honestly feel any investigation will find that the state and local gov't made some very costly errors in their decision making leading into this tragedy. I also hope that across all forms of gov't there will be learnings from this terrible event that will result in improved response/decisions before, during, and after the next National disaster.

401RCAF_HitMan · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

I have been watching this on tv daily since it happened, and I am still awed by the aftermath of this terrible disaster. I agree with alot of your posts and comments and I also have sent in some money to try and help..I think the media should stop making a huge ratings race out of the situation and spend more time financially helping the people. I also think all those big movie stars that keep walkin around New Orleans saying "how terrible it is" should be made to hand over everything they have on them and then stranded there for a week so they really see what it's like and shut the f~~k up and help out instead of trying to get shamefull exposure as a caring citizen. I know I sound harsh but the important thing here is the people, they're safety and welfare, not a bunch of bullshit from people sitting in a comfortable mansion and/or walking the disaster area for an hour and then returning to a luxury hotel.
I commend all those that are out there trying they're best to get things under control and aid the thousands that need it, if I could I would be there too.

JG300-Stoopy · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

Interesting discussion and forgive me for chiming in late. My line of work has been involved, in a particular way, with the goings-on there and we had to send a support team out from my own group this last (Labor Day) weekend.

When it comes to 'fault'....I don't know, I'm simply amazed sometimes at how some folks focus so much on that. What part of "Act of God" don't we understand? Common sense tells us that those leadership figures who are there at that location, and immediately in charge of whats going on there, have the unfortunate responsibility of doing their best to act in the full capacity they are provided. The picture of the buses sitting in a flooded lot, sadly speaks volumes.

And just running down there pell-mell to help out unprepared doesn't always do much good either. What was this story I heard about Sean Penn heading down there with a boat and an entourage of people (including his personal photographer) to "help", even though there was no room on the boat for anyone else by the time he had all his people aboard....and then the thing springs a link and starts sinking!

Best we can do from afar is help keep cool heads and sensible perspectives.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

="JG300-Stoopy"] What was this story I heard about Sean Penn heading down there with a boat and an entourage of people (including his personal photographer) to "help", even though there was no room on the boat for anyone else by the time he had all his people aboard....and then the thing springs a link and starts sinking!

Righto!...Goes to show every dark cloud has a silver lining!

Glad yer back!

JG300-Stoopy · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

- JG300-Ascout

Righto!...Goes to show every dark cloud has a silver lining!

Glad yer back!

Danke! Good to be here! And sending Jeff Spicoli (from Fast Times at Ridgemont High) woulda been a better call I'da thought!

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: hurricane katrina

Maybe some of the NO "police" performance issues can be explained by the company they keep...and the Captains they commission. Nope, no lack of professionalism here.... Sad

www.finalcall.com/artm...2072.shtml

Jews, community officials deny contract to N.O.I. member
By Jesse Muhammad
Southwestern Regional Correspondent
Updated Jun 23, 2005, 10:10 pm

www.finalcall.com/artm...2072.shtml

(FinalCall.com) - The New Orleans community has become a war-like zone in recent months, due to the senseless gun violence and the escalating tensions between the community and law enforcement. Police officials and community leaders have been dialoguing to come up with answers to this violence tearing the fibers of the neighborhoods. Chief of Police, Eddie Compass, seemed to have found that solution in Captain Dennis Muhammad, CEO of ENOTA (Educating Neighborhoods to Obey Those in Authority).

______________________________________________________

Just what the city needs, an anti-semitic, race-baiting nation-of-islam radical in a position of authority.

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