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OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:10 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Gee, everything from global geopolitics and disarmament to all-around-the-mulberry-bush tank handovers to unsafe maintenance to bad and good female soldiers and civil rights (or is this case called personal rights in the US Army). A fella gets an education every time he logs on this board!

And, I did think it was France not recognizing the drawdown subtraction connotations. They do have nukes don't forget.
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:32 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Oh, I've worked with plenty of super female soldiers. When I was the BMO of 1-12 CAV, we had a string of lazy, no good MST team chiefs from the FSB. Then one day, a female SFC showed up. She was by far the best MST chief I ever saw. My Bn Cdr was surprised to see a woman in the UMCP, but I assured him she was a squared away troop and the best E7 we had on site (which included my own Co. Maint team chiefs).

In the FSB, my SSG commo chief was my master fitness trainer was literally a weightlifting stud (studette?). Super soldier. Also one of my 63Bs was one of my best soldiers (although I believe she preferred women to men). One of my Lts was a West Pointer, 300 PT scorer and a great officer, although a little too green.

It's just that the lasting memories are of all the problems I had to sort through. I commanded this company when "don't ask, don't tell" was implemented. We went out of our way to look the other way as far same sex relationships went. I had a cook who complained that her roommate always had an overnight female visitor from within the Bn. She did not approve of the alternate lifestyle and wanted her out. We compromised and moved that cook in with another female who was straight and moved the female cook who was gay into a room with another female who was probably gay.

Oh what fun. It was my first unit I served in that had women.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Damn Sabot,

I bet you were one very happy Troop when you left Command there.

Unfortunately a lot of those problems with Females give the good ones bad reputations. I rarely worked with or dealt with female troops, having neither served or supervised any (Including my time in Recruiting). I do know some Senior female NCO's that are fine Soldiers, but also have my horror stories too. One that sticks out the most was a Female turret mechanic from the FSB. One look at her fancy, manicured, long fingernails told me right away the EL-Mech of my 23 Tank was not going to get changed out anytime soon. She was a little-bitty thing too who couldn't carry her own tool box by herself.

Joe D
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:24 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Some of the problems I ran into when I took command of HHC 215th FSB were:
1. Women from the S1 shop could not go into the S3 shop and the S3 shop women could not go into the S1 shop.
2. PAC NCOIC was removed and sent to the PSB that serviced 2AD because whe was caught "selling leave" (you turn in a leave form to her with some money, she gives you back your DA 31 and never processes it through Finance, in effect giving you uncharged/free leave).
3. Of the 12 soldier mess team, 5 of them at any time were pregnant, on convalescent leave or just coming back from con leave. I doubt I went to the field with more than 6 cooks at any one time.
4. One of my female PAC NCOs ("SGT L.") was messing around with married men. I got several irate calls from an unknown older black woman who wanted me to keep my sergeant away from her husband. She would not tell me who she was (I knew she was not a wife from my company). I finally had to tell her that it would be easier for her to tell her husband to stay away from SGT L. than it would be for me to tell SGT L. to stay away from some unnamed NCO who is married.
5. One of my PAC soldiers married a mechanic from another company. He was abusive to her and was quickly kicked out of the Army. He then showed up on my doorstep as a homeless Army spouse civilian and demanded that I move the soldier into the barracks so he could live in the quarters. My soldier had to pay for a place for that loser to live until we could get her a quick divorce.

Bottomline, the FSB is a bad place to be.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Don,

Friend of mine was there doing that turn in at Hood, said some guys seriously were talking of tracking down those so called "Experts" from Carson to give them an attitude adjustment.

I got to Riley right after DS from Korea (JAN 92). We had 3rd ACR's cast off M1A1's they turned in prior to the war. Our Battalion turned in their M1/105's after hostilities ceased and were given them on the way home. All were slick backs and some didn't even have the "Man-Hole" cover for the CITV installation. By '93 the desert damage from Bliss and Saudi had many turrets locking up, literally jamming tight and unable to move. That original turret ring design was pretty poor. I still have some of those ball bearings laying around from all the turret rings we worked on. Eventually we ended up going to Bliss to draw a Battalion of loaners while ours went to Anniston for repairs. The irony was the loaners we drew were 3rd ACR's M1A1's they drew for ODS and then turned in right after getting back for M1A2's. Those loaner M1A1's eventually followed me to Korea in '95 when my old BN got their tanks back from ANAD. Finally shook them when I went to Knox.

Sabot,

I cannot imagine the pain you went through going over an FSB, most during that time were known as the best Anti-Tank Battalions in the Army. There is a very good reason why you remote fire a tank after the gun has been worked on by 3rd shop. Had too many go out of battery that potentially could have killed someone if they were inside. They'd also have some E- nothing doing borescope of tubes with no supervision most of the time. I'd always asked them what they were looking for and what the condemnation criteria was. Got some very interesting and sometimes scary answers. Glad they were 120's and didn't have to do pull-over's. God knows what they would have come up with. Things are much better now from what I've seen the last few years.

And the Baaaad Flash-Backs continue

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

- Joe_D
Don,

Yep, during that time Fort Hood/ 1st CAV became "God's Gift to Armor", receiving all the latest stuff and influencing Doctrine and Training dis-proportionally to what was actually going on. Sometimes referred to "Desert Storm Syndrom" Meanwhile other units Stateside had to make do with scraps left over, some even being forbidden to fire up their tanks for maintenance due to fuel limitations. Even "Real" deployable Divisions (3 ID ) had to do without. Places like Korea, which had an ongoing mission, were hit too. We got M1A1's in '95 and were told NOT to let the crews do breech maintenance because if they broke something we could not get the parts. I don't know how many times I would cringe when conducting training or in meetings when someone would say "At Fort Hood......" .
We also stayed very busy, just nothing fancy, Did four NTC rotations in one year at Riley, that's because we were so under manned you ended up filling other units so they could go. After all, the commands had to get their NTC rotation in for their OER/NCOER's. All in all pretty crazy times.

That E-mail just reminded me of all that.
Joe D

BTW, 1st ID, 2nd "Dagger" BDE under COL Tony Moreno went to war with M1/105's, only unit's to do so.


Joe

A few things,....

1) 91-92 in ROK- Remember the 'start / no start' weeks due to No fuel availability? (Hard to do 'Monday Maint' when you can't even fire up your tank).

2) 'Team Spirit' 92 Cancelled due to no funding?

3) Were you at Carson in 92-93? 1st CAV turned over 3 Bns
of 'ODS issued' M1A1'a, 3/8 CAV being the last. That turn-in, in Nov/Dec 92, was the hardest I've ever been a part of Evil or Very Mad . There were some 19K20's from Carson making up the 'Turn-in Maint Team'. (Talk about getting the 'sandy vasoline' treatment,....!! Shocked ) Not a fun time!!



Being at Ft Hood, during that time, wasn't all that fun. BUT, it was certainly not boring on 'our' side of POST.

'The Happy Tanker'
Don
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Did my time at 1st Cav from 92 to 96, and watched 4th ID's Force XXI get all the good, new gear while we were doing two Kuwait rotations and a ramp up for Bosnia (I PCS'd before the Bde left).

I had friends who arrived from Ft. Polk as 5th ID in 92, reflag to 2AD shortly afterwards and reflag again as 4th ID by 1995. I'd always ask them which patch they were wearing this week.

I commanded an HHC in a former Tiger Bde unit (215th FSB/ex-502 FSB). Got hand picked for that command after tank company command by the ADCS and DISCOM Cdr. That was a sorry unit I tried to make better. Some of the stories I have from that Bn even I have a hard time believing.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Don,

Yep, during that time Fort Hood/ 1st CAV became "God's Gift to Armor", receiving all the latest stuff and influencing Doctrine and Training dis-proportionally to what was actually going on. Sometimes referred to "Desert Storm Syndrom" Meanwhile other units Stateside had to make do with scraps left over, some even being forbidden to fire up their tanks for maintenance due to fuel limitations. Even "Real" deployable Divisions (3 ID ) had to do without. Places like Korea, which had an ongoing mission, were hit too. We got M1A1's in '95 and were told NOT to let the crews do breech maintenance because if they broke something we could not get the parts. I don't know how many times I would cringe when conducting training or in meetings when someone would say "At Fort Hood......" .
We also stayed very busy, just nothing fancy, Did four NTC rotations in one year at Riley, that's because we were so under manned you ended up filling other units so they could go. After all, the commands had to get their NTC rotation in for their OER/NCOER's. All in all pretty crazy times.

That E-mail just reminded me of all that.
Joe D

BTW, 1st ID, 2nd "Dagger" BDE under COL Tony Moreno went to war with M1/105's, only unit's to do so.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

- Sabot

2AD was known as "Hell on Cinderblocks" before they were mobilized to deploy to Saudi in 1990. The plan was already in place to deactivate the 2AD HQ and absorb the brigade at Hood as the 3rd Bde, 1st Cav, which happened upon return from the sandbox.


I read the 'build up' (or rebuild) AAR IRT 2AD Tiger Bde, prior to departure to ODS. I've been told that they deployed with there 1st Gen M-1's, but luckily drew M1A1's in the sandbox while waiting to do the 'drive-by'.

In July 92 I was assigned to 1/67 Ar, 3rd Bde, 1st CAV DIV. Being the former 2AD 'Tiger Bde', many were still wearing their 'Hell On Wheels' patches over their left breast pocket. In Dec 92 we got redesignated to 3/8 CAV.

During My time there, the Battalion did the M1A2 Platoon test, Turned in the ODS drawn M1A1's, Transitioned to M1A1HC's, conducted M1A2 IOTE (Company level M1A2/M1A1 side by side field testing, Sent 2 company level RDF missions to Kuwait, and participated in Op Roving Sands in 1994.

We seemed to stay real busy, while noone else was doing anything, at least at Ft Hood.

Don
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:28 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

- Sabot
2AD was known as "Hell on Cinderblocks" before they were mobilized to deploy to Saudi in 1990.


That strikes a chord. When the first gulf war started I was with 3rd Royal Tank Regiment operating as an infantry company in Ulster. Our tanks stayed in Germany, and by the time we got back to them the newest had gone to the Gulf without us, and the older ones had been stripped of useful components including engines and suspension and literally left on blocks.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

- Sabot
2AD was known as "Hell on Cinderblocks" before they were mobilized to deploy to Saudi in 1990.


Point of order, Rob...we have a "spew alert" rule in effect here, so prior warning would be appreciated. (I'm dyin' here Laughing )

Don't they have a homeowners association there that sends out sternly-worded letters about derelict AFVs cluttering up the front yard?
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

To be fair, most of the Army divisions' deactivation process started in 1990. 8th ID, 9th ID, and 2nd Armor were slated for deativation/reflagging while G.H.W. Bush was in office. I left Germany in December 1990 (8th ID) and we were already preparing to deactivate a brigade, the div cav and some other support units before Desert Shield. We were really reflagged as the 3rd AD with some original 3AD units remaining.

2AD was known as "Hell on Cinderblocks" before they were mobilized to deploy to Saudi in 1990. The plan was already in place to deactivate the 2AD HQ and absorb the brigade at Hood as the 3rd Bde, 1st Cav, which happened upon return from the sandbox.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:52 am
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

I'll give this closing 'blurb' that went with it, just to be fair.


Don't feel too bad, if you are unable to identify this Global Superpower. That is because this country no longer exists. It has vanished. These are the American Military forces that have disappeared or been eliminated since the 1992 election of Bill Clinton.


Don't usually stray into politics, but this email had always been such an eye-opener, at the time.

note: I was in Bosnia when I first saw it, and it sorta hit a raw nerve for many personal & professional reasons.

Still felt it was a bit nostalgic. Rolling Eyes

Regards
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Personally I think its a bit of a pointless comparison. While one could argue the current Army isnt big enough, I doubt many would say we still need 18 divisions...

Additionally, a comparison of the Russian military today to the Soviet military of 1991 would really put the above numbers to shame except in naval terms...

I'm tempted to add it all up...

Neil
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:16 pm
Post subject: Re: OT- 'Can You Name That Country?" (Email circa 1999)

Found this link to the information on a post dated 2004. Most likely an urban myth.

Name that country

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