±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 674
Total: 674
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Your Account
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: CPGlang
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Member Screenshots
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Your Account
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Your Account
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Statistics
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Your Account
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: CPGlang
94: Your Account
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Statistics
101: Community Forums
102: Your Account
103: News
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Downloads
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Your Account
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Home
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Downloads
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Member Screenshots
170: Downloads
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Your Account
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Statistics
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Downloads
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Member Screenshots
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Home
230: News Archive
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: News
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: CPGlang
241: Photo Gallery
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: CPGlang
251: Member Screenshots
252: Downloads
253: Photo Gallery
254: Member Screenshots
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Your Account
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Member Screenshots
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: Community Forums
283: CPGlang
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Home
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Your Account
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: CPGlang
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Your Account
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Member Screenshots
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Home
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Your Account
341: Home
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Member Screenshots
347: Photo Gallery
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: News
354: Downloads
355: Photo Gallery
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Photo Gallery
362: Home
363: Member Screenshots
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Photo Gallery
369: Home
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Photo Gallery
379: Member Screenshots
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: CPGlang
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Downloads
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Home
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Downloads
418: Photo Gallery
419: Member Screenshots
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: CPGlang
445: Photo Gallery
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: CPGlang
454: Community Forums
455: CPGlang
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Home
462: Member Screenshots
463: Home
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Home
470: News Archive
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Downloads
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Home
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Photo Gallery
499: Home
500: Photo Gallery
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Statistics
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Your Account
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Member Screenshots
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Your Account
522: Community Forums
523: Member Screenshots
524: Home
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Your Account
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Home
542: CPGlang
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Downloads
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Downloads
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Downloads
560: News
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Home
564: News Archive
565: CPGlang
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums
578: Downloads
579: News
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Home
585: CPGlang
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Member Screenshots
591: Member Screenshots
592: Downloads
593: Community Forums
594: Member Screenshots
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Downloads
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: News Archive
603: CPGlang
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Downloads
616: Search
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Downloads
620: Photo Gallery
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Home
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Downloads
632: Home
633: Downloads
634: Home
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: CPGlang
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Statistics
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Home
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Home
655: Home
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Member Screenshots
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Downloads
673: Community Forums
674: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum