±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 582
Total: 582
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Your Account
11: Your Account
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: News
18: Community Forums
19: Your Account
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: News
51: CPGlang
52: Community Forums
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Your Account
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Home
80: CPGlang
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Downloads
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Photo Gallery
116: Photo Gallery
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Photo Gallery
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: News
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Downloads
153: Photo Gallery
154: Your Account
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: News Archive
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Member Screenshots
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Your Account
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Member Screenshots
172: Community Forums
173: News Archive
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Your Account
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Your Account
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Your Account
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: CPGlang
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Your Account
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Statistics
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Your Account
303: Your Account
304: Photo Gallery
305: Downloads
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: CPGlang
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Downloads
345: Downloads
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Downloads
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Downloads
363: Statistics
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Your Account
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Downloads
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: CPGlang
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Member Screenshots
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Member Screenshots
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Home
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Downloads
466: Downloads
467: Statistics
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Downloads
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Downloads
478: Statistics
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Home
515: Downloads
516: Community Forums
517: News Archive
518: Your Account
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: News Archive
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Downloads
548: Home
549: Community Forums
550: Downloads
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Community Forums
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Downloads
568: Community Forums
569: Your Account
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Downloads
576: Home
577: Photo Gallery
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Alternative guns for the M60A2?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Walter_Sobchak
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:13 am
Post subject: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

I was sorting through some old documents that a friend had given me and found a rather large stack of papers entitled "M60A1E2 Tank Characteristics and Description Book" from October 1971 put out by "U.S. Army Materiel Command Project Manager-M60 Tanks." Like most technical manuals, it is not exactly the most exciting read. But at the very back of the report, they have a section detailing various other guns that may be fit into the M60A1E2 (later called M60A2) with technical data and lists of what would be involved in the conversion. I found this surprising, I had always assumed that the ill-fated M-60A2 had been specifically designed for the 152mm missle launcher/cannon hybrid. I had no idea that other guns were ever considered for that turret. The guns listed in the document are the XM150, which was the longer barreled version of the 152mm gun/launcher hybrid intended for the MBT-70, the M68 105mm gun that equipped the other versions of the M-60, the 120mm T123E6, a smooth bore cannon developed by the US but never put into production, and the British 120mm L11A2 cannon that was featured on Chieftain. I thought this was worth sharing, I have uploaded the relevant pages of the document here. Hopefully someone may find this information useful or at least interesting.
Back to top
View user's profile
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

That's funny... I have the old ESCI 1/72 kit and was always wondering what other guns I could use to replace the gun/launcher as part of a potential what-if build. I definitely considered the M68 and the M256, among others.
Thanks for posting this.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Walter_Sobchak
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Costas_TT
That's funny... I have the old ESCI 1/72 kit and was always wondering what other guns I could use to replace the gun/launcher as part of a potential what-if build. I definitely considered the M68 and the M256, among others.
Thanks for posting this.


I have a collection of 1/72 models, mostly prebuilt ones but some that I put together myself. I did not know there was a 1/72 scale kit of the M-60A2 out there. Looks like I'll have to check ebay for such a thing!
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

There would have been real limitations on alternative guns in the M60A2 turret as designed. Most high velocity guns have substantially more travel in recoil than the M81 did (I don't have the figures in front of me, but something like 7-8" comes to mind). M68/L7 guns recoil further and require clearance for a lengthy fixed brass cartridge upon ejection that simply wasn't there on the M60A2 (the TC turret mechanism being directly aligned with the gun).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

Indeed. The guns would most definitely need some kind of system to limit recoil travel in order to clear the TC's position. Maybe the guns could be fitted more forward (i.e. having the trunnions closer to the breech) to leave room for the recoil and the recoil guard/casing deflector, in which case they might need some sort of counterweight at the breech end to maintain the balance.
On the other hand, the rounds fired by the M256 do not have as many limitations to impose on the use of the original A2 turret, as their casings are mostly combustible and therefore only a specially designed recoil system would be needed.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

Re-hanging guns get tricky, balance is a critical factor. Also, anything that increases weight (like counterbalancing) further was a no-go on the A2, which already was ~5 tons heavier than an A1 and automotive performance was affected as a result. There was a requirement for 25mph on the straight and level, and this was probably not met on most of them as it was. Wear increased across all drivetrain components.

Unlike M48's and conventional M60 designs, the turret was not designed to accommodate updates (foreeen or unforeseen). It was what it was and would need to serve as the design had settled for it's (limited) life. Extending turrets in either direction was undesirable due to the already mentioned weight penalty and the already expansive vertical sides that nobody was keen to enlarge anyway for ballistic reasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Costas_TT
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Walter_Sobchak
I have a collection of 1/72 models, mostly prebuilt ones but some that I put together myself. I did not know there was a 1/72 scale kit of the M-60A2 out there. Looks like I'll have to check ebay for such a thing!

There is one, although, in common with other Patton tank variants made by Esci and currently marketed by Revell (M48s), the roadwheels are hideous and the tracks lack any sort of inner face detail. The Revell M60s are much better but they do not have an A2 in their product line yet.

- Doug_Kibbey
Re-hanging guns get tricky, balance is a critical factor. Also, anything that increases weight (like counterbalancing) further was a no-go on the A2, which already was ~5 tons heavier than an A1 and automotive performance was affected as a result. There was a requirement for 25mph on the straight and level, and this was probably not met on most of them as it was. Wear increased across all drivetrain components.

Unlike M48's and conventional M60 designs, the turret was not designed to accommodate updates (foreeen or unforeseen). It was what it was and would need to serve as the design had settled for it's (limited) life. Extending turrets in either direction was undesirable due to the already mentioned weight penalty and the already expansive vertical sides that nobody was keen to enlarge anyway for ballistic reasons.

All these are valid points. I'll add that with the A2 turret config uparmoring its sides with modern add-on armor without fouling the loader and gunner's hatches would definitely be a bitch. But, now we are straying a bit too much into what-if territory.

_________________
1/72 and 1/76 scale fanatic.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Walter_Sobchak
I was sorting through some old documents that a friend had given me and found a rather large stack of papers entitled "M60A1E2 Tank Characteristics and Description Book" from October 1971 put out by "U.S. Army Materiel Command Project Manager-M60 Tanks." Like most technical manuals, it is not exactly the most exciting read. But at the very back of the report, they have a section detailing various other guns that may be fit into the M60A1E2 (later called M60A2) with technical data and lists of what would be involved in the conversion. I found this surprising, I had always assumed that the ill-fated M-60A2 had been specifically designed for the 152mm missle launcher/cannon hybrid. I had no idea that other guns were ever considered for that turret. The guns listed in the document are the XM150, which was the longer barreled version of the 152mm gun/launcher hybrid intended for the MBT-70, the M68 105mm gun that equipped the other versions of the M-60, the 120mm T123E6, a smooth bore cannon developed by the US but never put into production, and the British 120mm L11A2 cannon that was featured on Chieftain. I thought this was worth sharing, I have uploaded the relevant pages of the document here. Hopefully someone may find this information useful or at least interesting.


Thanks for uploading that, I already downloaded it successfully. My interest in this and any other documents you have links to or can transmit relates to having myself having reported to AMC (Test and Eval Cmd.-Armor Board) and was on the Initial Production Test Project for the M60A2. I also have an in-state contact who was at the Board before I was and was on the M60A1E2 project. Anything I can obtain would be much appreciated and would be shared with my colleague (who was also on the M551 project mid-late '60's). Thx in advance. You can PM me if we need to use other means for communication.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Walter_Sobchak
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Doug_Kibbey
- Walter_Sobchak
I was sorting through some old documents that a friend had given me and found a rather large stack of papers entitled "M60A1E2 Tank Characteristics and Description Book" from October 1971 put out by "U.S. Army Materiel Command Project Manager-M60 Tanks." Like most technical manuals, it is not exactly the most exciting read. But at the very back of the report, they have a section detailing various other guns that may be fit into the M60A1E2 (later called M60A2) with technical data and lists of what would be involved in the conversion. I found this surprising, I had always assumed that the ill-fated M-60A2 had been specifically designed for the 152mm missle launcher/cannon hybrid. I had no idea that other guns were ever considered for that turret. The guns listed in the document are the XM150, which was the longer barreled version of the 152mm gun/launcher hybrid intended for the MBT-70, the M68 105mm gun that equipped the other versions of the M-60, the 120mm T123E6, a smooth bore cannon developed by the US but never put into production, and the British 120mm L11A2 cannon that was featured on Chieftain. I thought this was worth sharing, I have uploaded the relevant pages of the document here. Hopefully someone may find this information useful or at least interesting.


Thanks for uploading that, I already downloaded it successfully. My interest in this and any other documents you have links to or can transmit relates to having myself having reported to AMC (Test and Eval Cmd.-Armor Board) and was on the Initial Production Test Project for the M60A2. I also have an in-state contact who was at the Board before I was and was on the M60A1E2 project. Anything I can obtain would be much appreciated and would be shared with my colleague (who was also on the M551 project mid-late '60's). Thx in advance. You can PM me if we need to use other means for communication.


Glad you found it interesting! The complete Book is rather large, over 150 pages which is more than I can scan at home on my crappy little HP printer/Scanner. I may have to sneak it into work and use the big scanner there. This book is the only thing I have specifically on the M60A2. It was given to me by a friend that spent years working for the manufacturer of the M-60 engine. If I get around to having it scanned, I'll post it here. Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

If we're safely in non-copyrighted material, that would be great! Thx.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Walter_Sobchak
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Doug_Kibbey
If we're safely in non-copyrighted material, that would be great! Thx.


Hmm, that's a fair point. Do 40 year old government documents fall under copyright laws? I mean, it's not like I am trying to sell them and they do, ultimately, belong to the tax payer. I would think it falls under "fair use" as long as its not something that is classified.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

- Walter_Sobchak
- Doug_Kibbey
If we're safely in non-copyrighted material, that would be great! Thx.


Hmm, that's a fair point. Do 40 year old government documents fall under copyright laws? I mean, it's not like I am trying to sell them and they do, ultimately, belong to the tax payer. I would think it falls under "fair use" as long as its not something that is classified.


Is one even claimed? It will so state. In the U.S., it's:

95 years from publication for works published 1964–1977; 28 (if copyright not renewed) or 95 years from publication for works published 1923–1963 (Copyrights prior to 1923 have expired.)

Probably a public domain document if never offered for sale, which I gather is not the case. And you can be assured that the classified status (which was Secret at the time) is definitely past it's "use by" date. (Much as myself) Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: Alternative guns for the M60A2?

If it was produced by the U.S. Gov't it is in the public domain. The only exception is documents produced for the gov't by copying manufacturers documentation to support a specific contract. Those documents are specifically marked as such (The main case I know of is computer manuals)

So if the document is a U.S. Government produced document it is free of copyrights. If it was produced by the vendor it should have a copyright or proprietary information statement on it

As a disclaimer - I am not a lawyer or a copyright specialist. I have done some research into the subject (Like when we had a problem here a few years back) and believe that I have provided an accurate layman's interpretation of the rules. Your mileage may vary and if you are caught just remember not to drop the soap Shocked in the prison showers

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum