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76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:53 pm
Post subject: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

Hello,

Joe DeMarco and me are looking for any information about rounds of "anti-personnel shells" that can be seen on this photo, taken in August, 1952. Do someone know if it was a standard ammo, and if yes, what's the official nomenclature designation? The photo shows 7 of them on the right side.

thanks




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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

Shrapnel, I'd guess.
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Rick_Eshleman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

I thought of "Beehive" ammunition, but after checking it out found that it was only used in Vietnam (8000 flechette's it sounded like a beehive when fired). Anti-personnel ammunition in Korea would have a time fuze on front of the round and dispense shrapnel at about 7' overhead of enemy troops. I didn't find any M numbers for it in my search.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

do you think that it could have been locally made?

P-O

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Rick_Eshleman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

If You mean local, as in Korea or Japan, I doubt it. I used to work for a company in Pennsylvania that made fuzes. Proximity, timers, Safe and Arm devices, etc. A timer fuze was too complex to have been built in Korea or Japan after WW II. Both countries needed outside help for military equipment at the time. Rick
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

- Rick_Eshleman
I thought of "Beehive" ammunition, but after checking it out found that it was only used in Vietnam (8000 flechette's it sounded like a beehive when fired). Anti-personnel ammunition in Korea would have a time fuze on front of the round and dispense shrapnel at about 7' overhead of enemy troops. I didn't find any M numbers for it in my search.


I'm totally open to correction on this matter of detail, but my recollection is that "beehive" was generally an artillery round or M-48 90mm AP round that traveled a fuze-set time before opening (and generally resembled a conventional round). "Canister" was the VN-era round that was just what it resembled...a big, black shotgun shell housing flechettes (10K in the 152mm) that were liberated as soon as the container was ripped apart by air resistance (which is to say, right NOW). The AP round for the 90 had the "diamond" symbols on it. I don't recall that the Can round did. The terms get used interchangeably, but are not quite the same thing.
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Rick_Eshleman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

The M546 "beehive" were used on 105mm howitzer, but one article mentions they were "beehive" (not M546, I would guess) made for recoiless, 90mm, 106mm, ontos, and M48 tanks. This does leave out 76mm guns. I did find this video on flickr youtu.be/mk6wxBQ3f_0 which shows what looks like the tube of a 105mm M1 tank firing a "beehive" round in slow motion. The range used appears to be the Main Front at APG.
Doug, You're right about canister being the 152mm anti-personnel round.
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

P-O, I have some Ordnance ammunition SNLs from that era, I will check tonight.

I don't recall seeing any reference to such rounds before but I was generally looking at earlier eras. It might have been an experimental (T-series) cartridge.

KL
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

- Rick_Eshleman
I thought of "Beehive" ammunition, but after checking it out found that it was only used in Vietnam (8000 flechette's it sounded like a beehive when fired). Anti-personnel ammunition in Korea would have a time fuze on front of the round and dispense shrapnel at about 7' overhead of enemy troops. I didn't find any M numbers for it in my search.


105 Beehive was available in Korea in the 1970's. My best bud was in Fire Direction Control and told me they had beehive to deal with potential human wave attacks and that it could be set to open anywhere from muzzle to max range and also had open sights available if needed

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

I could not find anything standardized in the 1951 ammunition catalog. I searched several other operational and technical documents but could not find a mention there either. By 1963 a 76mm BEEHIVE round for the gun used in the M41 tank had been standardized, along with rounds for other calibers. Undoubtedly these were developed as a result of Chinese tactics in Korea. It is quite possible that developmental rounds were in the field by 1952. It will require further research to determine what they might have been.

KL
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Dennis_Smith
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

Wikipedia article on 75mm gun mentions T-30 canister shot that was full of ball bearings. Said it was used in Pacific during WW2. I doubt it was pointy nose like the rounds in the picture though.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:10 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

Joe told me that he guessed the photographer misinterpreted the marking "AP" (armor piercing) as "Anti Personnel".

P-O

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

P-O, do you have a larger version of that photo to look at?

KL
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:52 am
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

this is the largest file I could get

the.shadock.free.fr/sh...B_8-52.jpg

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: 76mm "Anti-personnel" rounds in Korea?

Thanks P-O. I wanted to see if the "anti-personnel" had fuzes. They don't, so Joe's guess is probably right.

KL
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