±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 400
Total: 400
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Member Screenshots
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Member Screenshots
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: CPGlang
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Photo Gallery
48: Photo Gallery
49: Your Account
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Downloads
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Search
71: CPGlang
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Statistics
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Community Forums
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Member Screenshots
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Your Account
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Home
138: Downloads
139: Photo Gallery
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Your Account
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Photo Gallery
159: Photo Gallery
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Photo Gallery
179: News
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Member Screenshots
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Your Account
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Downloads
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Your Account
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Your Account
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: News
245: Photo Gallery
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Member Screenshots
251: Home
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: News
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Contact
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Statistics
275: Downloads
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Community Forums
279: CPGlang
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Member Screenshots
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Photo Gallery
291: Downloads
292: Statistics
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Your Account
297: Downloads
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Downloads
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Your Account
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Downloads
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Tell a Friend
333: Photo Gallery
334: Home
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Statistics
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Your Account
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Photo Gallery
371: News
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: CPGlang
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Your Account
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M48 Shillelagh prototype
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:34 pm
Post subject: M48 Shillelagh prototype

alright, i tracked down this vehicle again. last time i saw it, it was down at the arty ctr, DTW. looks like they have repainted it. it is now out in armada.
hey chris, if you are reading this, are you or anyone else you know, privy to the condition/whereabouts of other detroit monuments?

Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

That is a seriously rare bird.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

so you see the feathers too! i thought i was just trippin'

very rare bird indeed. and yet again, i find another bee's nest down the muzzle of the barrel. the tc's cupola is missing, covered with sheet metal. i was able to lift this up about 6", only to find that the hatch had also been covered with plywood under the sheet metal.

at first i hadnt been sure that this was the same vehicle but i noticed that the 1st roadwheel is still in an elevated position.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Shawn, great find, any chance you could do a walk-around for us?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

yes, give me a second to post the pics. i took about 30 today so i will get to posting asap...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Great, and if possible, you might want to consider using photobucket.com to post bigger pics - the M60A3 ones are awfully small...

Or just send them to me and I'll be happy to put them on photobucket & post them.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:25 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

- Neil_Baumgardner
So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil


In Hunnicutt's Abrams book - where he is discussing the T95E8 - there are several photos of an M60 chassis that has one of these types of turrets installed (but with 20mm cannons mounted on the sides of the turret - indicated in the photo below where I have marked with arrows). It even has the same ladder like thing on the front of the hull. I don't see any photos of an M48 having a T95 turret installed as a test rig - but he does mention an M48 chassis being used as a Driver in Turret test rig - which was also part of the T95 program.

hth



cn
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

That's what makes this place so special. Discovering and discussing jewels like this!

What a great find!
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:36 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Right, sure, but there's no actual reference I can find to an M48 with a Shillelagh turret. In fact, it seems a little odd, since the M48 had already been replaced by the M60 right?

Then again, the Army had the bright idea to put an air defense system on the M48 after even the M60 was being replaced, so go figure...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Is it possible this oddball experimental turret was dropped into an M48 hull just to make a "complete" vehicle for static display?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig. But like Neil says - it is not shown or listed in the Hunnicutt's book - so I have nothing to back this up.


cn
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Vivman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:16 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Hi all,

Well this vehicle facinated me so I started doing a little research and I found a couple of other references. In Fred Crismon's "U.S. Military Tracked Vehicles" on page 121 he has a picture of what looks like an M48 or M48a1 hull mounting a Shillelagh in a similar but not identical turret to the one pictured above.

The second reference is in Crow and Icks "Encyclopedia of Tanks" on page 236. It identifies a vehicle as follows, " M48 with Shillelagh, squat cast turret, right centre cupola, rotatable hatch w/3 extendable periscopes, left rear side extendable range-finder, ventilator rear right top."

Granted it is not much but, it suggests that this vehicle was not just a bashed together "Tanken-stein" to be used as a tank monument.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Not to mention partially depleting it's own strategic reserve of tanks after the IDF saw over 400 of theirs get toasted. Suddenly, M60's of any variant probably started to seem a lot more valuable. I betting though, that this M48/Shillelagh mule was cobbled together well before the Yom Kippur War.

I'd like to see Neil taken up on his offer to get higher res pics posted...like Jeff said, this "jewel" is too unique not to get documented well...while it still exists and can be accounted for.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum