±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 545
Total: 545
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Photo Gallery
06: CPGlang
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Your Account
13: CPGlang
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: News
32: Your Account
33: Photo Gallery
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Your Account
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: CPGlang
84: Community Forums
85: Downloads
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: CPGlang
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Your Account
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: CPGlang
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: News Archive
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Your Account
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Downloads
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Downloads
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Home
178: Your Account
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Your Account
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Downloads
217: Community Forums
218: Your Account
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: CPGlang
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Downloads
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Search
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Downloads
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Downloads
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: CPGlang
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: CPGlang
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Downloads
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Home
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: CPGlang
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Home
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: News
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Your Account
414: News
415: News
416: Community Forums
417: Your Account
418: Home
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Photo Gallery
427: Home
428: Photo Gallery
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: CPGlang
435: Photo Gallery
436: Photo Gallery
437: Photo Gallery
438: Your Account
439: Photo Gallery
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Home
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Member Screenshots
464: News
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Downloads
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Home
497: CPGlang
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Downloads
503: Photo Gallery
504: CPGlang
505: CPGlang
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Member Screenshots
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Downloads
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:36 am
Post subject: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Last week the Ottawa Citizen reported (front page) that the CF had denied any interest in replacing or adding to the current Leopard 1 fleet. Then someone found documents suggesting there had been talks with Germany and Switzerland for a hundred or so Leopard 2s. The story repeated remarks from the Chief of the Defence Staff about tanks not being relevant if they weren't being used, how the MGS (ie. tank annoyer) would be the answer to the CF's concept of all-wheeled and capable to 95% of the battle. The writer tied in that the C1s are now in AFG and the fleet's disposal was preempted only last summer. The story didn't have much more than that, and never had any traction. Nothing heard. Out.

Today the CBC radio noted that quote Vietnam era armoured vehicles unquote were being investigated for use by the troops. The Mercedes G-Wagons aren't able to do as much or go as many places as the unnamed M113s. No news there. As good an SUV as the G-Wagons are, they are not all terrain rough terrain vehicles. They seem to be suicide bomber magnets. They aren't overly large, and with all the go-to-war gear the boys are hauling, there was even an AD when a fellow got stitched by a C6 7.62mm MG while inside one.

The South African RG-31 seems to be a good vehicle, and are performing as advertised, but the CF only bought a couple dozen. My guess is there are more M113s in storage than money for more RG31s, and their robust-ity trumps the G-Wagon for getting around.

It is important to remember that the LAVIII has proven itself as the preeminent fighting vehicle in the Canadian arsenal, and is very very unlikely to be replaced by M113s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
...today the CBC radio noted that quote Vietnam era armoured vehicles unquote were being investigated for use by the troops. The Mercedes G-Wagons aren't able to do as much or go as many places as the unnamed M113s. No news there. As good an SUV as the G-Wagons are, they are not all terrain rough terrain vehicles. They seem to be suicide bomber magnets. They aren't overly large, and with all the go-to-war gear the boys are hauling, there was even an AD when a fellow got stitched by a C6 7.62mm MG while inside one.

.....My guess is there are more M113s in storage than money for more RG31s, and their robust-ity trumps the G-Wagon for getting around.



I seem to recall (on the old board) a certain Roy What's-his-name and myself floating similar suggestions early on when the recent unpleasantness started...around late '03....and not in regard to Canada, either! Deja-freakin'-vu.

They aren't sexy, and they won't make anybody a lot of money, but M113's are wildly to be preferred to what amounts to uparmored SUV's when things start blowing up near you...especially when you need them in significant numbers that don't call for the investment of, say, a Bradley.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:22 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Actually the CBC story is lacking in details.

The M113A3 TLAVs will be sent to Afghanistan as a supplement to the G Wagon and LAV 3.

Reasons:

The LAV 3 is having mobility issues in certain areas not favorable to wheeled AFVs.

The G Wagon simply isn't armoured.

For those folks that don't know about the Canadian M113A3 TLAV (Tracked Light Armoured Vehicle) it is an M113A3 with an extended hull so it has six road wheels, the turret from the Grizzly AVGP, 8 x 76 mm Wegmann grenade launchers, a new power pack, new style Diehl tracks, bolt on armour, and additional stowage boxes.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Hi Doug, what's your name? Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

I seem to recall (on the old board) a certain Roy What's-his-name and myself floating similar suggestions early on when the recent unpleasantness started...around late '03....and not in regard to Canada, either! Deja-freakin'-vu.

They aren't sexy, and they won't make anybody a lot of money, but M113's are wildly to be preferred to what amounts to uparmored SUV's when things start blowing up near you...especially when you need them in significant numbers that don't call for the investment of, say, a Bradley.


Let see, keep dropping them in the sea to make new homes for sea life or send them to war where they just might save some lifes?

I remember there was a plan to fix up some U.S. vehicles and send them over. So far I have only seen one photo of an upgraded M113 from that program.

Sounds like the Canadian vehicles are versions of what some folks were calling the M-113A3+ and the M-113A4. I think the builder's name was Mobile Tactical Vehicle Light (MTVL).

It shall be interesting to hear how those vehicles do in protecting their crews and passagers.

Deja-freakin'-vu Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Doug, what's your name? Hi Folks!

Deja-freakin'-vu Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Laughing


(They never listen to us, Roy....ever since Sparky jumped the rails, any practical suggestions regarding use of the M113 get dismissed as lunatic ravings)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Google and thou shall find.


www.dewengineering.com.../m113.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Found this story that has other details:
"O'Connor says military 'scrambling' to find soldiers for Afghanistan
Last Updated: Sunday, November 5, 2006 | 6:45 PM ET
CBC News

Canada's military is "scrambling" to find soldiers to send to Afghanistan as it seeks to keep front-line troops from being overworked, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor said Sunday.

"What we're trying to do in principle is try to avoid having people who are in daily operations to go back [to Afghanistan] a second time before the end of February, '09," O'Connor said, referring to the date to which Parliament extended the Afghan mission.
....

"Our efforts are to look after our men and women, to execute this mission successfully, and to reduce the risk to them as they do that work for us."

He also acknowledged the military was planning to send scores of Vietnam-era M113 armoured personnel carriers to move soldiers around the battlefield.
....

With files from the Canadian Press

There are a few voices starting to ask why the troops aren't flying from one camp to another. They say the military has insufficient and inadequate helicopters, thanks to the previous government's glacial pace with any project on military helicopters and its predecessor's fixation on COTS helos. Old clapped out Sea Kings on the ships, fewer SAR birds than before, and Bell 406's that can't be armoured AND fly in high and hot conditions.

The ripple effect has been the troops in AFG must drive just about everywhere, except when bumming rides on US, UK or Dutch Chinooks, or riding in medevac birds.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:26 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Here is another take on the German Leopard 2s. Much more detail than I'd seen elsewhere. Only $350,000 a piece.

www.ctv.ca/servlet/Art...hub=Canada

While we are on AFG armour, another forum is suggesting the M113s to be deployed are TOW Under Armour. The news stories are suggesting the infantry are carrying M72s and Carl G's for squad firepower, 60 and 81mm mortars for plunging fire, the 155mm M777 guns are doing a great job, which leaves the 25mm chain gun on the LAV as the only mobile firepower. TUA and Leopards make sense to blast walls and push back the enemy.

In the grand scheme of things, this is an example of how armies typically fight. Make the best plans possible, work the plan, and react both creatively and instinctively when the plan needs more work. It that means 84mm grunt-powered recoilless rifles so be it. Nobody is whimpering that the troops have been hung out to dry or improperly equipped.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum