±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 637
Total: 637
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Statistics
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Photo Gallery
05: Statistics
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Your Account
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: News Archive
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Photo Gallery
39: CPGlang
40: Community Forums
41: CPGlang
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Member Screenshots
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: News
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Your Account
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: News Archive
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Downloads
91: Photo Gallery
92: Home
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Member Screenshots
114: Downloads
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: CPGlang
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: CPGlang
122: Downloads
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Downloads
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: CPGlang
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Your Account
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Home
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: News Archive
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Photo Gallery
177: Your Account
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Your Account
189: Home
190: CPGlang
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: News Archive
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Your Account
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: CPGlang
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Your Account
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Your Account
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Downloads
272: Downloads
273: Home
274: Statistics
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: CPGlang
284: Home
285: News Archive
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Your Account
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Your Account
306: Member Screenshots
307: Home
308: Downloads
309: Your Account
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Downloads
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: Home
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: CPGlang
350: Your Account
351: CPGlang
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Home
375: Your Account
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: News Archive
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Downloads
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: CPGlang
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Your Account
403: CPGlang
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Downloads
413: CPGlang
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: News Archive
428: Photo Gallery
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Your Account
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Home
435: Home
436: Downloads
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Home
465: Home
466: Photo Gallery
467: Home
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Home
473: Photo Gallery
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Downloads
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: CPGlang
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: CPGlang
505: Home
506: Home
507: Home
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Your Account
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Home
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: CPGlang
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: CPGlang
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Member Screenshots
541: CPGlang
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: Photo Gallery
545: Downloads
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Your Account
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Photo Gallery
556: Statistics
557: Community Forums
558: CPGlang
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Downloads
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Home
576: Member Screenshots
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Photo Gallery
580: Home
581: Member Screenshots
582: Photo Gallery
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: CPGlang
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Downloads
594: News Archive
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Downloads
621: Photo Gallery
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Member Screenshots
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Member Screenshots
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Photo Gallery
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:52 pm
Post subject: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

okay fellas, happened to catch the tail end report on the news this evening in re: an anti-RPG system or something. it was developed by the IDF, called Trophy?

do any of you who know more about this, feel that you can comment, shed more light on how this is supposed to work?

shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Not adopted by anyone yet as it is useless in built-up areas and poses a hazard to any of the dismounts around the vehicle. It is strictly a wide-open spaces and everyone under armour system.

TRAPS is a much better system that can be used even with personnel stood beside it...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Shadow_Banshee
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 575

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

maybe this might be intresting, i checked and its ok to link to it, www.thesop.org/index.php?id=878 i was recently discusing this with a IDF friend so the link was handy. hope it helps.

_________________
Lay me place and bake me Pie
I'm starving for me Gravy
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

I believe Trophy may have seen some limited use in Lebanon last year. There's been a recent media stink about the U.S. turning its nose up to Trophy in favor of a home-grown version that's still pretty far down the road.

My own ill-informed concern with Trophy is its electronic footprint. Radars scannning for incoming rockets sounds like an opponent should be able to pick up and isolate vehicle signatures from miles away. 'Captain, I'm reading three Trophy signatures off the port bow!"
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

thanks, i know i am not the only one who feels this way, the media can get my blood boiling...

oh my goodness, i cant believe i was going to use this term, the "drive-by" media, lisa meyers or whomever she was, reported on the trophy system,
presenting views and opinions that i dont feel are accurate, trying to make the govt or army out to be the bad guys and not putting the lives of the soldier first, blah, blah, blah.

this type of defense has some good pros, but too many cons at the present...
this is the first i have heard of it. sounds viable, but how useful would it really be?
seems like sci-fi, force fields around vehicles and such, seems cool


the story had mentioned something to do with an auto-loader, how did that fit into the system?

thanks for shedding some light on this for me, and for the link. i will check it out.
shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Army Committed to Force Protection, Not False Security
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8, 2006 – Army leaders are committed to ensuring soldiers have the best force-protection capability possible, but also want to avoid giving soldiers a false sense of security, service officials said here today.

Maj. Gen. Jeffrey A, Sorenson, the Army’s deputy for acquisition and systems management, took exception to an NBC News report that said the Army is not buying an Israeli system, called Trophy, that could protect soldiers and their vehicles from rocket-propelled grenades. The report alleges the Army manipulated information in favor of a competing Raytheon system, called Quick Kill.

Both the Israeli and Raytheon systems are designed to fire missiles that intercept RPGs in flight. The Israeli system may be six months ahead of the Raytheon system, but it has limitations. The NBC report made it sound as if the Army refused to field a perfectly fine combat system that would save lives, officials said.

Sorenson said they system is not a “produceable item.� The Israelis have been working on the Trophy system for 10 or 11 years, Sorenson said. “If this thing was ready to go, my question would be, why wasn’t it on the particular tanks that went into Lebanon?� he said. No Israeli Merkava tanks carried the Trophy system, he said.

Other problems include the fact that the system right now has no reloading capability. Once it fires, that side of the vehicle is vulnerable. Which brings up another shortcoming: the Trophy can only be mounted to protect one axis. This means officials would have to mount multiple missile systems on every vehicle. The Quick Kill missile has 360-degree capability and a reload capability.

Another worry is collateral damage, he said. “In a tight urban area, the Trophy system may take out the RPG, but we may kill 20 people in the process,� Sorenson said. “That is a concern we have that we haven’t fully evaluated.�

The general said there also is confusion on the contract award. “It was awarded by the lead system integrator and the government team,� Sorenson said. “It was not done by Raytheon. There was confusion in the report that the Army was cooking the books and which was absolutely false, blatantly false.�

Sorenson said the Army has standards of performance for force-protection capabilities. “These have not only been dictated by lessons learned in theater, but all the work we have done heretofore on all the systems prior to this,� he said. “We will not put anything out there that has not demonstrated that it is capable of doing what it is alleged to do.�

The bottom line is that if a system “does not have the ‘Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval’ it does not go forward,� Sorenson said.

The general said that every soldier lost is a tragedy. But, of the more than 1,400 soldiers killed in Iraq, most died from improvised explosive devices. A total of 148 soldiers have been lost due to an RPG or an RPG and other weapons. Sixty-three soldiers died by RPG only, he said. Broken down further, 10 soldiers died as a result of an RPG hit to a U.S. combat system -- an Abrams tank, Bradley fighting vehicle, Stryker wheeled vehicle or M-113 armored personnel carrier.

“The reason that is so low is that those combat systems already have good force-protection systems applied,� Sorenson said. There are reactive armor tiles on the Bradley. Officials added slat-armor protection to the Stryker, and all combat vehicles have protection built into them, officials said.
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Some describe the debate as a contest between a high-tech one-shot reactive system that may cost more than the vehicle itself vs a cheap steel cage with bars spaced 3 inches apart. of course a cheap steel cage doesn't boost Raytheon profit margin.

D'oh! I almost forgot to mention. Our gracious host 'AFV News' had a brief article on Trophy in its journal a short while ago. Is your magazine subscription up-to-date? Wink
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Ah! By sheer coincidence I got home from work early last night, just in time to see an NBC news report pretty darned critical of Pentagon procurement in regards to Trophy. Not that they didn't field it, more that they did everything possible to keep from even looking at it! So the old story's still got legs.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

I saw the story on NBC also. It was a pretty pointed and damning piece. Their focus was 'Army Does everything it can to keep from testing a system which may save soldiers lives to protect the FCS program which their (The Armys) favored contractor is developing' Including the old 'The Army refused our requests for interviews' which NEVER plays well.

Also nothing about cost or potential danger to dismounts (Which is the big problem I've always felt was there with active/reactive systems)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Nobody's mentioned Humvee Protection,
Just curious if it would apply to them, since the majority of the traffic is of those type of vehicles. Pardon my ignorance but can it be used with a crewmember exposed in an open cupola??? If not the value would be even less. I will say that protective upgrades are happening all the time and as soon as you get used to one another comes out even better. IED's are the most common and biggest killer. RPG's can mess your day up, but at least there's a person you can kill if he tries to engage you. Can't fight an IED.
Did not see the NBC program, kinda glad I don't have regular access to it based on what everyone has said. Let's hope this story doesn't end up prompting some Congressman to start another uneccesary investigation that will either buy us a system we don't really need and siphon off funds needed elsewhere (Counter IED) or prevent the fielding of one in a timely manner that does work.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum