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World War One armor and modeling
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:25 am
Post subject: World War One armor and modeling

Well, first off, the Great War has never truly captured my fancy for modeling or toys or anything.
I cant see WW1 reaching the levels of interest that WW2/Cold War era/ACW as the 100th anniversary approaches. Would I be wrong to think this and why?
I see an increased interest in things of WW1 more and more, but not enough to draw me into all of it...
Shawn
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Shawn,
If I had to guess, it would be that it's because for the most part, the technologies we associate with those later periods were still in their infancies and relatively crude and didn't work very well. If we exclude the Naval actions for a moment, that leaves us with the arms of Infantry, which rapidly stagnated into trench warfare, Aviation...which was influential, but still in a limited way and not terribly reliable or decisive in the way it was to become in WWII and later; Armor...and we know how that turned out. The land arm that had truely come of age was Artillery (and the machine gun) and when you put those two together with the stagnant trench warfare, well, we know what happened there, as well. It worked so well, everyone resolved never to find themselves subjected to that again, so they hastened to mature all those other arms to get themselves mobile.

That's my hyper-simplistic explanation, if your emphasis is on "modeling and toys", only the big guns really ruled. (Which is to say, they might not always have been decisive, but they always worked.)
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:37 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

I feel that good part of the interest in WWII, The Cold War era, and the ACW is those conflicts have lots of room for the "What If" factor.

Massed heavy and very heavy artillery came of age during WWI, but there isn't much of a "What If" factor. The only thing the Red Leg branch did was fire tons of shells which turn lots of farm land into moon scape. No "What If", nothing interesting there.

The machine gun. Each side added Battalions of machine gun teams to their divisions. Once the artilley stopped, those teams retuned their guns to firing positions and ruled no-man land between the trench lines. The main tactic of the day was to send infantry at those machine guns until they ran out of ammo. There is no interesting "What If" factor with any of the major attacks of WWI.

Along with what Doug posted, WWI was a major blood bath with almost no tactics by either side and very few folks want to read or hear about that type of warfare.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:06 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

.......The land arm that had truely come of age was Artillery (and the machine gun) and when you put those two together with the stagnant trench warfare, ..........., everyone resolved never to find themselves subjected to that again, ....


Everyone except the French Military. Having won that war, they drew the wrong conclusions. That trench warfare was the way to win and that had a lot to do with the building of the Maginot Line, the ultimate defensive trench line.

Sgt, Scouts out!

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Does everyone know about Squadron Mail Order models , they have a great catalog and more the several WWI and between the war Model tanks

Click here....

SQUADRON
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Hi Army Junk 2! Hi Folks!

- armyjunk2
Does everyone know about Squadron Mail Order models , they have a great catalog and more the several WWI and between the war Model tanks


I have been ordering kits from them for almost 30 years. I have always had good service. I have had two, possible three problems with an order over the years and they were always willing to help correct the problem.

If they don't have something, they will tell you right away and cancel the order for that item.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

back in '71-'73 they wre the ONLY way to get models in the boonies of Western Virginia. We would put a group order together a couple times a semester, mail it off and wait till the big box showed up. never had a problem which was important since the only way we could contact them was by mail (not e-mail but real put a stamp on an envelope mail)

They used to have a store in the Maryland suburbs of DC but that is long gone

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:47 pm
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Too bad too. I think the vehicles used back then were monumental in what we know now today. There would be more interest if other companies put out kits reflecting that period, especially if they were in larger scales than just 1/35th.

I know I would fork over the dough for a 1/16th scale Whippet or even the Little Wille! Can you imagine an R/C version of the Mark IV tank lumbering in your back yard?

Oh well, back to surfing. Laughing


Jeff
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Shadow_Banshee
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:39 pm
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

www.armour-models.co.u..._shop.html some pretty neat ww1 stuff here also try the links www.armour-models.co.u..._armo.html

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

okay, good, i still stand the same ground (entrenched in my trenches LOL).
y'all just stated what i say. the war was too static, a 4 year stalemate.
there are quite a few companies now that are producing new WW1 models and figures, but i just dont see that they have selling potential for the long haul. i dont think i am loosing out by not buying the stuff. or getting more into collecting ww1 militaria. i mean on the time line, 2011 is the 150th for the american civil war, that will eclipse any of the interest generated for 2014...
williams britains and ONTC are making quite a few WW1 tanks and figures but they arent for me. ONTC is right here in my area. they always say they make what sells. (no you make what you like, ww1 aint no big seller).
i just wanted to make sure i am not missing the tip of the iceberg and missing out on the beginning of something soon to be big...

i agree doug. there was only one big naval battle in ww1 (juttland). how many air campaigns/battles were there? humh, the man credited for killing the red baron is an aussie known by name only-- no picture of the man even exists. arty was the king of the battlefield (balls for the queen!).

jeff, that would be pretty cool, 1/16 stuff.

i can respect it, can like it a little, appreciate it alot, ww1 is part of the historical evolutionary chain... it lead up to ww2 and the cold war...

i guess i see ww1 as being, will continue to be, special interest items, etc...
sr
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

- SHAWN
i agree doug. there was only one big naval battle in ww1 (juttland).


Battle, yes, but some facinating actions and high drama. Examples include the chase of the Goeben and Breslau and the exploits of the Emden is the stuff of legend. I'm not a Naval guy, but what little I've read of those stories is edge-of-your-seat stuff (or maybe it's just the compelling style of Tuchman and Keegan). U-boat warfare began in that war and set the stage for the Battle of the Atlantic. The ships didn't have the compelling lines of the Iowa Class, but brought speed and huge firepower to bear in an environment not much better illuminated by communication than that of Napoleon's fleet.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Actually there were other naval battles. The German Pacific Fleet sailed all the way across the Pacific, down the western coast of South America and battled a British squadron off the Falklands.

There were several independent raiders including the Light Cruiser Emden and the Sailing ship Seeadler.

There were several sorties by German heavy ships against the coastal towns of Britian and the Battle of Dogger Bank

But your major point that the war is generally forgotton is true. People want to forget it. It's botched settlement laid the seeds for WWII, the Arab Israeli Conflicts, and even the current problems in Iraq. It was the last glory of the European Colonial system which did so much to 'civilize' Africa

It was the biggest use of 'terror weapons' like gas. yea people would like to forget it. They sure don't want to celebrate it.

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

yes, Bob, and I think there is also more of a patriotic effort with the U.S. in WW2. I have 2 great grandpas that fought in WW1 but have basically every family member that fought/contributed to WW2. In this case, it might not be a case of "forgottens", but just alot of "overshadows" cast by others....
It is more appealing to hear about grandpa Miller jumping out of airplanes in Africa/Sicily/Italy, than to hear about great grandpa Blauser fighting off rats in a trench. The later generation's deeds just eclipsed what the previous had done. It can be unfortunate now that I think about it.
well anyway,
sr
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

- SHAWN
yes, Bob, and I think there is also more of a patriotic effort with the U.S. in WW2. I have 2 great grandpas that fought in WW1 but have basically every family member that fought/contributed to WW2. In this case, it might not be a case of "forgottens", but just alot of "overshadows" cast by others....
It is more appealing to hear about grandpa Miller jumping out of airplanes in Africa/Sicily/Italy, than to hear about great grandpa Blauser fighting off rats in a trench. The later generation's deeds just eclipsed what the previous had done. It can be unfortunate now that I think about it.
well anyway,
sr


I'm not sure I agree with that. I think the Veterans of WWI were just as idolized in their time as their sons were after WWII. There were a lot of negative memories that did set a tone different from World War II. Even the names the war from 1914-18 was 'The GREAT WAR' or THE WAR TO END WAR. How much more idealistic can you get than that? Then a generation later it was all happening again.

Would you believe I even have memories of WWI and I wasn't born til 1953. How can that be? Growing up our next door neighbors were an older couple. She was bedridden . Had been for years. She had been a nurse or a red cross volunteer in France (He had been a doughboy) She had been gassed. My mother had grown up in the row house we lived in and even when she was a little girl 'Miss Hanna' was bedridden next door. On Halloween we would stop there before going 'trick or treating' to let her see our costumes. In spring there was always a stop there when we were in our Easter outfits. She would be in her bed (in the converted dining room on the first floor) Mr Bill would prop her up. She would be gasping and the oxygen bottle would be there 'just in case' and she would seem so happy to see us for a few minutes.

Years later when I was on the Chemical Warfare team for my squadron and our trainer is talking about all the advanced gasses that were out there and that if we were lucky it would ONLY be mustard gas I asked 'Have you ever seen the results of mustard gas?' I HAVE. Those memories have stuck with me all these years. When there was all the talk about possible gas in both ODS and OIF I remembered. Yea we may have wanted to here the stories of WWII more but I won't say there was more patriotism about that war

I'm sorry folks. I guess I'm just gloomy tonight

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:28 am
Post subject: Re: World War One armor and modeling

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

Would you believe I even have memories of WWI and I wasn't born til 1953. How can that be? ....

Years later when I was on the Chemical Warfare team for my squadron and our trainer is talking about all the advanced gasses that were out there and that if we were lucky it would ONLY be mustard gas I asked 'Have you ever seen the results of mustard gas?' I HAVE. Those memories have stuck with me all these years. When there was all the talk about possible gas in both ODS and OIF I remembered. Yea we may have wanted to here the stories of WWII more but I won't say there was more patriotism about that war

I'm sorry folks. I guess I'm just gloomy tonight


I was born in 1947 and I also remember the look of mustard gas. Sometime during the very late 1950s or early 1960s, my dad came home one day with a very large blister on the back of one of his hands. I asked him what had happiened, he told me he was taking classes in chemical warfare. That large blister was caused by a VERY small drop of mustard gas.

That blister is something I remember everytime I hear talk about chemical warfare.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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