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Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:17 am
Post subject: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

the military channel had the top ten tanks on (again?).
i know it is entertainment but i cant stand to watch much of it. his opinion is given on many of their programs, dr. ayer nusbacher, slammed the M1. slammed it over many of the other p.o.s. that made their list.
due to the logistics and he called it a "parade of softskin vehicles" to support the M1, he said taking it into battle is like "having one foot in a bucket". and having to support the tiger tank wasnt...
they put the T54 over the Merkava... they put the Mk1 as 4th...
the panther didnt even make the list...

i just dont get it....
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:50 am
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Where did the Sherman and the T34 end up? Did the M60 make the list? What about Centurion

Do you remember what their criteria was? Maybe we should run a thread where we come up with our own 'Top 10' using either their criteria or some other agreed on attributes.

I think I agree with the T54 over the Merkava, but it could depend on the criteria.

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oldertop
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

The M4 was number 10 and the T34 number one, the placement was based on some strange scaled system. for some reason they have been harping on the fuel consumption of the M1 lately because of its turbine engine..oh ya and they list the range of the Tiger (they show pics of both I and II) at about 120 miles (there wasn't a Tiger operating during battlefield operation that got 90 miles on a full load of fuel, the docs I read (German) put it at a average range at 83 miles, which by the way was about the same the Marines were getting with the gasoline fueled 62.5 ton M103 heavy tank..who are these "experts" who think you should get great mileage from a heavy tank.
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Strictly for entertainment for sure. Confused
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

- bsmart
What about Centurian


I can hold it no longer, no offense Bob, it is CENTURION ... period!

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Dubliner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

When people pitch these kinds of shows to the networks there is always a push to offer something new and "edgy." History has to be revisited and some new overlooked deeper truth found. Even when military experts are used the experts have only seen most of the vehicles in action in archival films or at an event at Bovington or Saumur. They may know the history, but they seldom have an understanding of how the units that used the vehicles operated on a day to day basis. Veteran interviews are used for emotional "hooks" or to reinforce the preordained message.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

- Rikard_Hufschmied
- bsmart
What about Centurian


I can hold it no longer, no offense Bob, it is CENTURION ... period!


Noted and corrected. All I can say is that it was early and I was not fully awake (Don't tell my boss)
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Like I said in the M113 thread, it's about how successful a vehicle is, not about how effective it is. The T34 was in service well into the 90s in some places, has fought in more wars than just about any tank, and was produced in vast numbers. It's not nearly equivalent to the Abrams in effectiveness, but it is one of the most important AFVs ever produced and was designed well enough to last well beyond the age it was designed for.
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Not to cause anymore grief, but this list leaves out one factor. The most important AFV. I would believe that the M4 chassis was more important than any other vehicle the US had at any time.

Giving it the number 10 nod was only by their rating system. If that was altered or changed the outcome would be completely different.
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oldertop
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

If you look at it from "in uses" point of view..Why wouldn't the M48 be listed up there at the or near the top..after all the M60 was just a modfiyed and up-graded M48 not unlike the T54,55, and 62s and the M60 is still being used as a frontline main battletank to this day 60 years after its introduction. They argue that the M1 hasen't faced its equivalent in battle but yet they rate the Tiger that never fought its equal in armor and firepower, lease of all the M26 or any of the KV or JS, and the Tiger was never built in any great numbers, far less than the M1.
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

yes, i dont care for their faulty/contradicting criteria...
part of their judging scale is a "fear factor".
what did they use, they had 5 categories (?)... production rate, fear factor, armor/armament, innovation, ?
mechanical reliability should be on their list of criteria...
they graded on a big curve....

the centurion was number 5 or 6...
no pattons made the list...
the panzer IV was 7 (?)... over the M4 even considering its evolution into the Easy 8, etc.....

anyway, even though it got my feathers ruffled, it was entertaining!!!
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

I guess the 'Fear Factor' is all about if you were in another tank.

I don't know about you, but if I were on foot I would just about fear any tank no matter how thick the armor was!
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

- SHAWN

the military channel had the top ten tanks on (again?).
slammed the M1. slammed it over many of the other p.o.s....
due to the logistics and he called it a "parade of softskin vehicles" to support the M1, he said taking it into battle is like "having one foot in a bucket".
i just dont get it....


Ever sense the M1 was fielded, it has NEVER been judged as THE BEST because of it's high fuel consumption. There is nothing new about that shows position on the Abrams.

Old news folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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LeeW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: Top Ten Tanks-- slam the M1 Abrams

On the other hand some have claimed it is the best in spite of its high fuel consumption. All depends on what you consider and how you weight the various factors.
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