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Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:28 pm
Post subject: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

What do they call this type that is part plate and part cast?


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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

That's an M4 composite. One of seven known surviving examples.

Neil
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway

What do they call this type that is part plate and part cast?


That hull started out as all plate with small hatchs. During a rebuild, the front section was cut off and replaced with the cast section with larger hatchs.

It's still a M4 (No A numbers) and like Neil said, it's called a composite.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

Roy

I'm going to have to disagree with you.

The cast hull front was done as a factory improvement. It was used for the very late Detroit produced and for the few M4A6 tanks produced. I've always thought that the design change was first done on the M4A6 and then it's use on M4s was because the M4A6 was cancelled, but I don't have any documentary proof of that. I've always wondered why it didn't get a different A designation

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binder001
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

Designation: To the US Army this was still "Medium Tank M4" it carries the same engine and drive train as its all-welded bretheren. The British Army designated M4s with the cast front upper hull as "Sherman I Hybrid". To many modelers and Sherman tank fans this version is called a "composite hull" M4, harkening back to the early reference works by Chamberlain and Ellis.

Background: These vehicles came from the Detroit Tank Arsenal (DTA). The early M4 was designed for easy production and in several factories the fronatl armor (glacis) was constructed of multiple pieces welded together. Two factors inspired this change - 1) the need for improved frontal protection. Although the plate was harder than the cast armor, the "composite" contruction allowed the entire frontal armor to be seamless. The Army would have ;iked to go to the all-cast upper hull (M4A1) but foundry capacity limited their choices, so a compromise design allowed use of smaller castings that were added to improve the welded version of the M4. A second reason was that this front redesign of the upper hull allowed the larger driver's hatches to be installed. There were a few "composite" M4s with the earlier small driver hatches, but this casting allowed the production of the larger access hatches. Fisher Body achieved a similar efect in changing the glacis to one-piece angled at 47 degrees, leaving enough room on the hull for larger driver hatches. Two different approaches to improving protection and access.

As stated the cast upper hull front was also used for the M4A6 taht was produced at DTA also.

This tank SHOULD be the one that was on display at Ft. Douglas, UT. That's where I did a walk-around session on it. The tank looked like a former range target and had a fake gun tube etc. I was very glad to hear that it went to the guys in Toole for restoration since it's a fairly rare bird.

I'd love to see more photos of this tank post-restoration as I probably won't get back to UT for a while.

Gary Binder
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

Well, I know 2 Sherman composite wrecks on the Brasschaat fire range, and there are probably more than 7 surviving examples..





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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

I don't think those are 'surviving'. Those two are deceased Mr. Green

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

hey mark,
what other vehicles were in this area? is that another sherman in the background?
shawn
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Nice M4 in Tooele, Utah

Shawn,

Yes, there was another Sherman. I think I got a picture or two of it. I'll post later or send to you.

They had a beautiful M24. See photos at www.flickr.com/photos/...998024773/

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