±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 561
Total: 561
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Statistics
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Downloads
23: Home
24: Downloads
25: News Archive
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Your Account
40: CPGlang
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Member Screenshots
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Member Screenshots
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: CPGlang
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Your Account
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Your Account
107: Photo Gallery
108: Downloads
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Statistics
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Downloads
138: Statistics
139: News
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Your Account
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Your Account
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Member Screenshots
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Downloads
177: Photo Gallery
178: Search
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Member Screenshots
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Downloads
205: Your Account
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Downloads
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: CPGlang
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Photo Gallery
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Home
250: Home
251: Downloads
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Downloads
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Downloads
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Downloads
282: Photo Gallery
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Your Account
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Member Screenshots
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: CPGlang
341: Statistics
342: News Archive
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Member Screenshots
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Photo Gallery
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Statistics
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Your Account
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: CPGlang
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Downloads
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: CPGlang
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Your Account
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Tell a Friend
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Your Account
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: CPGlang
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Downloads
432: Community Forums
433: Member Screenshots
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Statistics
449: Home
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Home
458: Downloads
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: News Archive
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Your Account
505: Photo Gallery
506: Statistics
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Downloads
510: Downloads
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Your Account
514: Photo Gallery
515: Photo Gallery
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Photo Gallery
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: CPGlang
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Statistics
538: Downloads
539: Statistics
540: CPGlang
541: Photo Gallery
542: Photo Gallery
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Your Account
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Downloads
550: Downloads
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Downloads
560: Home
561: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Churchill tank in use in US forces?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:07 pm
Post subject: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Hello,

I wonder if the Churchill tank was ever in use in the US Army forces during WW2, or at least used by UK troops in US fighting zones.
I've seen a photo of US troops on a Churchill tank and there is a Churchill Crocodile as a monument in Brest (France), which was a city liberated by the US troops in August 1944. The tank is said to have been used because of its flamethrower, to conquer a fortress. Any guess?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

I think most pictures of Churchills with US troops would be in one of two instances

1) During Market Garden US paratroopers teamed up with British armor as it moved up the series of landing zones

2) later in the War US troops under 9th Army were put under 21st Army Group (Montgomery) control and worked with British troops. They were the Army on the leftmost flank of the 12 Army Group (Bradley) and were put under 21 AG control since they were on the North side of the Bulge in late December '44. They remained under 21 AG control through the Rhineland campaign so it is possible that at times they had Churchill unis assisting.

The 9th Army had also been used to cature Brest when they were first made operational (September '44?) but I don't know if they used any Churchills at that time. I can see where some sloppy research would be looking for info about 9th Army planning on using it for the early operations, find pictures tagged as 9th Army from later and connect the two

As a caveat I did this off the cuff from memory so you may want to look into the details further

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

There were several instances of specialized armour from 79 Armoured Division working with US troops in the ETO. I don't have my references right in front of me but I know that Churchill Crocodiles were used to support US troops during the Roer River campaign, and I think other.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

No operational American Churchills that I can recall in David Fletcher's books, but he does not cover all the "funnies" used in ETO and MTO. Churchill didn't reach the Australians until the war in the Pacific was almost over, so PTO cases for sure.

As far as operating with Churchills...

I believe Churchills of the Guards Armored Brigade (Coldstream or Grenader Guards Battalion I don't remember which one) gave a lift to the 82nd Airborne during Varsity. There are several well know pictures of Churchills loaded down with American Paras after the jump across the Rhine.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Thanks for your replies.

The photo showing troops on a Churchill could show either paratroopers or troops of the 9th Army. On the photo, one can see a GI with a Sturmgewehr rifle, so the picture may have been taken rather in 1945, IMO.

I said that Brest was liberated in August 1944, but it was indeed in mid-September 1944, Bob you're right.

I've found a website explaining that the liberation of the Fort Montbarey in Brest required the use of flamethrower tanks. The US troops didn't have any of that kind of tanks, so they asked the British troops to carry one there, to conquer the Fort.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

not a match, but an interesting tidbit I came across that I hadn't seen refered to before

It was during this time that the Corps discovered that British Churchill tanks could be fitted with guns from wrecked U.S. Sherman tanks. Since the guns of the Sherman tank could use a wider range of ammunition, substituting the Sherman gun extended the capability of the Churchill tank. The Corps outfitted two tank regiments with Sherman guns, and those regiments served in Italy.


source here

www.almc.army.mil/alog.../MS875.htm

Piney
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
claude_GILLONO
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Shadow_Banshee
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 575

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

www.rapid-fire.uk.com/...fences.pdf from a game but mentions units etc maybe the senario is taken from fact??
pagesperso-orange.fr/a...cit4an.htm

_________________
Lay me place and bake me Pie
I'm starving for me Gravy
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- Shadow_Banshee
http://www.rapid-fire.uk.com/brest_defences.pdf from a game but mentions units etc maybe the senario is taken from fact??


Well it's a start Smile I've got some stuff on the 29th Division I'll have to dig out and see if it mentions it. With the 29th being the local National Guard Divison I've gathered a couple books on it

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- piney
not a match, but an interesting tidbit I came across that I hadn't seen refered to before

It was during this time that the Corps discovered that British Churchill tanks could be fitted with guns from wrecked U.S. Sherman tanks. Since the guns of the Sherman tank could use a wider range of ammunition, substituting the Sherman gun extended the capability of the Churchill tank. The Corps outfitted two tank regiments with Sherman guns, and those regiments served in Italy.


source here

www.almc.army.mil/alog.../MS875.htm

Piney


It was called the N.A.75 . The N.A. stood for Noth Africa. They were used quite a bit in Italy.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Recently I read an article by one of the officers in charge of that project explaining what was involved to make it work. There were challanges such as the loader and gunner being on opposite sides of the turret in the two tanks that had to be overcome. I wish I could remember where I read it

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- bsmart
- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?


Pick up Osprey's "Churchill Infantry Tank 1941-1951".

There is text describing the actions of Churchills of 9 RTR and the 147 Regiment in support of the U.S. 10th Division in October 1944.

There is further text about the 6th Guards Tank Brigade supporting the U.S. 17th Airborne Division across the Rhine and then on to Munster.

There is an image of a 4th Coldstream Guards Churchill I would think taken in early 1945 with a bunch of U.S. 17th Airborne Division Troopers catching a casual ride on the back deck.
Back to top
View user's profile
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Bob, I am like you, I read the same article about changing the guns in the Churchill. I am at work, but I think it may be in one of this past years AFV News.
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- Jason_Bobrowich
- bsmart
- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?


Pick up Osprey's "Churchill Infantry Tank 1941-1951".

There is text describing the actions of Churchills of 9 RTR and the 147 Regiment in support of the U.S. 10th Division in October 1944.

There is further text about the 6th Guards Tank Brigade supporting the U.S. 17th Airborne Division across the Rhine and then on to Munster.

There is an image of a 4th Coldstream Guards Churchill I would think taken in early 1945 with a bunch of U.S. 17th Airborne Division Troopers catching a casual ride on the back deck.


I was specifically looking for ant reference to them being used against Brest in august/September 1944. Given my comments about U.S. 9th Army being attached to 21 AG in late 44 I have no doubt they supported US troops in the surge into Germany

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum