±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 696
Total: 696
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Member Screenshots
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Downloads
18: Home
19: Photo Gallery
20: Downloads
21: Photo Gallery
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Statistics
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Downloads
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Photo Gallery
61: Your Account
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: CPGlang
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: CPGlang
85: Downloads
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Member Screenshots
102: CPGlang
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Member Screenshots
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: Home
128: Photo Gallery
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: CPGlang
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: News Archive
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Home
144: News
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Downloads
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Your Account
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Your Account
189: Photo Gallery
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Your Account
202: Home
203: Statistics
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Downloads
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Downloads
214: Your Account
215: Community Forums
216: Your Account
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: News
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Downloads
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: CPGlang
250: Downloads
251: Home
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Home
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Member Screenshots
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: News Archive
285: Community Forums
286: News Archive
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Home
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Downloads
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Statistics
315: Community Forums
316: Downloads
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Downloads
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Member Screenshots
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Member Screenshots
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Downloads
368: Downloads
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Your Account
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Your Account
393: Community Forums
394: Downloads
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Photo Gallery
411: CPGlang
412: Community Forums
413: Your Account
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Tell a Friend
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Downloads
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Your Account
435: Member Screenshots
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Member Screenshots
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Search
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Downloads
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: News
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Downloads
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Statistics
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Your Account
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Your Account
529: Downloads
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Your Account
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Member Screenshots
540: Statistics
541: Your Account
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Downloads
548: News Archive
549: Your Account
550: CPGlang
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Home
556: CPGlang
557: Community Forums
558: Downloads
559: Home
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Your Account
566: Community Forums
567: CPGlang
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Your Account
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Your Account
586: Member Screenshots
587: News Archive
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Your Account
596: Photo Gallery
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Home
609: Downloads
610: Community Forums
611: Member Screenshots
612: Home
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Photo Gallery
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Home
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: CPGlang
624: Downloads
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Photo Gallery
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Downloads
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Photo Gallery
636: Downloads
637: Statistics
638: CPGlang
639: Downloads
640: News
641: Community Forums
642: Downloads
643: CPGlang
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Statistics
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: News
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: CPGlang
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Member Screenshots
667: Community Forums
668: Photo Gallery
669: News
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Community Forums
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Home
681: Community Forums
682: Your Account
683: Downloads
684: Member Screenshots
685: Photo Gallery
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: Member Screenshots
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Home
693: Home
694: CPGlang
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:32 am
Post subject: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

According to Vladimir Francev's book on CKD export light tanks (MBI Publications), there are five of these preserved. Four of them are pretty well know, and listed on Pierre-Olivier's PDF:

- Two tanks in Thun, one stored on the outside, and a runner stored inside.

- One in Full (in running order?)

- One in Sinsheim (Germany)

There was another one, Francev says it's in Solothurm, so I checked the local museum's website and they indeed mention they have one on the ground floor:
www.altes-zeughaus.ch/go.php?lang=e

After a 4 hours trip, I arrived in Solothurm, and the tank was missing! Crying or Very sad
It left Solothurm in early 2008 and it's now in Schaffhausen.

I was pretty disappointed at first, but at least I've got the opportunity to visit Solothurm's museum. It's hosted in an old building, dating back to 1600, used as city arsenal for a few centuries, a very cool location. It's an amazing place if you like old armory, but it also has some interesting swiss artillery from the 1850-1950 periods. Among other things I managed to take pictures of 7,5 cm Pak 1944, the gun used for Nahkampfkanone I and Nahkampfkanone II (both prototypes stored in Thun).

The only things related to the LTL-H still available in Solothurm were a postcard with a small picture of the tank and a 24 mm Panzerbuchse 41, the gun used in the tank. Note it's classified as "Panzerbuchse", basically anti-tank rifle, kind of what happened to 2.8 cm sPzB 41 in Germany.

I can post pictures of the guns if you want (is artillery allowed here?), but quality isn't great, because light was poor and flash not permitted

In the end I was back to my personal tank hunting, and reached Schaffhausen's museum website. I wasn't aware of it, since their website is only in german (a language I can't speak or read):
www.museumimzeughaus.c...=45&lang=1

From the above page I've got three very cool news:

1) They indeed have the LTL-H, and it's one of the original 12 tanks delivered by CKD, using a gasoline engine (later 12 were assembled in Switzerland, using a swiss, diesel, engine)

2) They also have a G-13, another beast not listed Pierre-Olivier's PDF or any other register I am aware

3) Both tanks are in running order! Shocked

I also got bad news, the Schaffhausen's museum opens just once a month, from april to october... That means 6 days a year! That's even worst than Cecchignola in Roma

Anyway, the hunt is still going on, I plan to visit Schaffhausen and find the beast. Will keep you updated. Hope to be back with good news and plenty of pictures

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Very interesting - good hunting, Massimo! I look forward to hearing how you get on.

For artillery, there's a dedicated forum here:

www.com-central.net/in...forum&f=86

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

well Massimo, that's pretty good news !! Mr. Green thanks for this discovery.

How many of them are still hidden in some obscur buildings or private collections?

Very recently, I've heard of a private collection in Germany. It is located in Fürth, near Nurenberg.
Apparently, there are at least a Panzer IV, but I didn't see any picture of this museum yet. The owners of this private collection are willing to open a museum in the next few months or years..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

- Massimo_Foti

2) They also have a G-13, another beast not listed Pierre-Olivier's PDF or any other register I am aware


Massimo,

after further researches, I've found that the G-13 at Schaffhausen is the registration number M-78029 which was already listed in my PDF file as belonging to the Thun Tank Museum (there was a picture in the PDF file). It was then donated to Schaffhausen in 2006, but I was not aware of that donation.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Yeah, good catch! I can see a picture on the museum's website:
www.museumimzeughaus.c...3_ganz.jpg

I plan to try and be there very soon, stay tuned for additional pictures.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Good discovery Massimo!

Thanks for sharing it with us here!
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum