±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 618
Total: 618
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Your Account
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Home
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Member Screenshots
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: News
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: News
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Your Account
78: Home
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: News
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: CPGlang
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Your Account
143: News
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Member Screenshots
147: Home
148: CPGlang
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Member Screenshots
161: Member Screenshots
162: News Archive
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Downloads
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: News Archive
179: News
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Downloads
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Your Account
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Home
217: CPGlang
218: Your Account
219: Downloads
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Downloads
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: LinkToUs
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Downloads
245: CPGlang
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Downloads
260: Home
261: Home
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Downloads
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Statistics
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Photo Gallery
297: Downloads
298: Downloads
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Your Account
313: Photo Gallery
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: News Archive
320: Member Screenshots
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Member Screenshots
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Your Account
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Home
332: Photo Gallery
333: Member Screenshots
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: News Archive
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Statistics
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Home
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Member Screenshots
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Downloads
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Photo Gallery
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Member Screenshots
399: Your Account
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: News Archive
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Member Screenshots
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Home
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Member Screenshots
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Photo Gallery
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Downloads
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Member Screenshots
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Member Screenshots
492: Community Forums
493: Downloads
494: Home
495: Downloads
496: Photo Gallery
497: Member Screenshots
498: Community Forums
499: Downloads
500: Downloads
501: Your Account
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Statistics
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Your Account
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: News Archive
557: Downloads
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Downloads
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Your Account
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Member Screenshots
587: News
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: News Archive
592: Home
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Home
605: Photo Gallery
606: Your Account
607: Photo Gallery
608: Community Forums
609: Downloads
610: Community Forums
611: CPGlang
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

OK, I'm a Sherman nut and don't follow the panzers very closely. What are the basic differences between a Hetzer and a G13? Were the G13s all WW2 production or are they post war?

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

If a Hetzer is still carrying all its Swiss modifications, then it is a G-13, if it has been back dated to its original configuration, it is once again a Hetzer.


Maybe in this case it becomes an ST-1? Laughing

If a Sherman is modified or rebuilt after the war


While I see your point, G-13s were build after the war, not modified or rebuilt, and they were never called "Hetzer".
You may consider this mostly a matter of semantic and think it's irrelevant, and I not necessarily disagree with you, but it's a somewhat different case than a rebuild Sherman.

Massimo

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

The link in Don's post is gone. Here is the new link. www.armorfortheages.co...taPage.htm

Garry

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch


I will start the show Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

The post WW2 G13 had an muzzle brake fitted, the original WW2 Hetzer did not have an muzzle brake

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

G13 & Hetzer have different crew layouts as well...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

When i restored our Hetzer I was able to find no proof of Hetzers being built after WW2, Battle damaged and abandoned vehicles were brought back to the factory to be repaired, the hulls on the assembly line were finished, but new production vehicles??? when restoring our hetzer back to original, i found all the original mounting points for everything the Swiss removed, including the mounting points for the STG 44's in the interior, Waffen marks all over the vehicle, original tan color on the hull. I agree this is a blurry debate.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo


This point is actually very clear, being post-WW2
During WW2 all German Hetzer where equipt with PaK 39 canon and this barrel did not have the option to mount an muzzel brake

The feature of the muzzle brake came from the StuK 40 that was intended to be used on the StuG III

This also means that

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13


is still true

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Michel_Krauss
Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...


that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel


I was, of course, referring to those extant today... There are hardly any G13 around

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Full's Museum has both a G-13 and a G-14. Same for Fort Pré-Giroud. Thun has one G-13 in static display and at least one G-13 among the runners.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

Based on the numbers there is an 46% change that vehicle will be an G-13 and 54% change that it is an G-14

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

It could have been used non-official to make an difference between the 2 type's

The military is good at doing that Wink

Let's get back to topic.
I found an site of the Swiss National Militia Museum with on short history of the G-13 / G-14
When I know what they are telling I will make an new post

It has to do what was bought when, which years, WW2 production or new, etc

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

- Massimo_Foti
About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation


The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo


It appears on the new G14 manuals (rare) but not on the G13 manuals amended to cover the G14.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Still existing Hetzer and G13 tanks

I am not surprised. It's not unlike the Pz 39/LTL-H, half of then use an original gasoline engine, the other half a diesel engine, and the name remained the same

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum