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REALITY CHECK :: Archived
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HF_SlowHand
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Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:20 am
Post subject: REALITY CHECK

Time for a new rig, looking to buy parts...

I am considering...

CPU > Intel i7 875K (o/c'd 4.1 GHz);

FAN > Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler

MOBO > ASUS P7P55D-E PRO - motherboard - ATX - iP55 - LGA1156 Socket

RAM > Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) CAS7 OR
OCZ Technology OCZ Reaper HPC Edition Low Voltage Triple Channel Kit CAS7 OR
G.SKILL Pi 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) CAS7 OR G. SKILL #1TRIDENT PC3 16000 3GB triple channel

GPU > SPARKLE Calibre Series X460G GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

AUDIO > ON BOARD;

CASE > Rosewill CHALLENGER Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case; OR
CoolerMaster "Storm Scout"; OR
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Crucial Real SSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State

Fujitsu MBA3147RC Serial Attached SCSI (SAS 3gb) 147GB 15000rpm Access Time 3.4ms Cache 16MB

OS > Windows 7 Ultimate


Any suggestions or observations are appreciated.

I learned early on to not use all the brains you have but all the brains I could borrow (no I didnt cheat on my tests!)

thanks slow

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Shades
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Posts: 6453
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Not up to speed with all this now but you may find these interesting for your mobo choice:-
Clocking:-
www.overclockersclub.c..._pro/9.htm
Review conclusion:-
www.overclockersclub.c...pro/23.htm

Tom's Hardware is, as usual, invaluable when building a new rig.

Check your CPU fan will fit the case.
Mine has 2 x 120mm fans in the same configuration and [edit]it[/edit] touches the side.
If one of mine was 140mm, it would not fit.
Mine's a great fan, but a bugger to fit; Be prepared. Wink

Having one component in a machine makes it a weakness as it will throttle back to the overall strength of the system. Balance is what you aim for and then tweak bits.
The key to a good gaming machine is the graphics card; Your priorities should be GPU, RAM, Mobo, CPU.
120mm fans will make it quieter and less intrusive than the more standard 90mm fans (they don't need to revolve as fast which in itself creates less noise).
Personally, I'm not a fan of Sparkle cards, but they could well have improved since I was up on all this stuff.

One thing I notice about your list is a mistake everyone makes.
Nobody thinks the Power Supply unit is important.
You forgot it.
The card you're using, on it's own, will require a system of at LEAST 450w (I allow an extra 100w).
If you want to expand later on and get another to run SLi, allow for it when you choose the power supply or you'll end up buying another later.
Remember that PSU's lose a bit of power every year of use so allow enough on top.
These will help, I doubt they'll all work out the same though.
Use the most extreme answer as a guide and then add enough on top for it to last and be able to expand later:-

extreme.outervision.co...orlite.jsp
www.antec.outervision.com/
www.power-on.com/calculator.html

If your case is going on the floor, get the Storm Scout (which I have).
If it's going on the desk, get the Rosewill or the Antec (Storm Scout front ports all face up and it has a better filter to prevent ground dust intrusion).

On-board sound.... pfffffffft!!!!
Get a separate sound card (or aim to get one).
Onboard sound is better than ever now but it will still cause occasional pits and pops.
It hijacks on your system memory as well.

Don't forget 64-bit does not have the 4Gb RAM limit (3Gb if you have a 1Gb GPU).
I have 3 x 2Gb running in mine.
The main app I use on my rig is 32-bit and thus is itself limited to 4Gb, but that still leaves me 2Gb spare to deal with background services which would otherwise cause popping and hesitation.

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CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 10 Home Advanced (64-bit).


Last edited by Shades on Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shadow_Bshwackr
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Posts: 6988
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Hard to argue with Shades' great post and the only thing I can add is, I've always been an ASUS fan and highly recommend them. Of course, I would dual boot Win7/MintLinux, but that's just me...
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HF_SlowHand
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Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Thanks guys. Shades, the power supply is 750w coolmaster silent pro gold and my focus is CPU as i am aiming for a better Fsx experience (most benchmarks show 30-40 GPS above 4ghz, same reason i am trading in my athlon 64 4000 bush, Wink ).

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Shades
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Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

FSX? Sli.
Wink

If it were my machine, I would be thinking in terms of going SLi at some point in the future and I might even be looking a bit higher, powerwise.
You might want to add another HDD sometime as well, to store all those FSX scenery add-ons and forest inhabitant ammunition (I am thinking 'Piney' here, not skwirrells).
It all takes juice.

Just noticed your 15,000 rpm HDD.
Noisy.
Check you can live with it for day-to-day gaming.


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Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 10 Home Advanced (64-bit).
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HF_SlowHand
Power User

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Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Cool on the HDD... I plan on using SSD for gaming. Also, am I not limited to 4gb of ram for the I7-875k? It shows 2 memory channels, not three (does the 920 have 3?). Last, can you recommend a power supply? I was going dual gtx 460/sli in a few months.
Thank
Slow

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Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

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Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

GPU > SPARKLE Calibre Series X460G GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card


forget SLI for fsX it's counterproductive it just doesn't work !

this is a pretty noice alternative and it will last you for a few yaers to come
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Shades
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Posts: 6453
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

2 memory chanels, 4 slots.
How much you can put in those slots depends on the board.

I'm really out of date on hardware now bud, but I would look into Antec which were the best when I was last interested.
Also OCZ and Enermax.

Mine's modular, which means you add the cables you want to use, but the amount that come with the unit varies from manufactorer to manufacturer.
The advantage of this means less cabling to tidy up (VERY important for cooling which will be an important consideration with the kind of rig you're building.

Pop along to Build Your Own and post your choice in the "Proposed section" of the forum.
I used to contribute to it for five years, but haven't been there for a while now (no time and too many 'idiot' kids).
Word to the wise though:-
Don't take their advice on PSU power.
They will normally rate down which I find insufficient for a long-term, expandable build.
Otherwise they're pretty good.
Use the guides I posted and allow at least 100w on top of their reccomendation for your envisaged build (not the one you're starting out with, the one you want it to turn into).
Then add some more for the stuff you haven't thought of yet (DVD/CD re-writers).

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 10 Home Advanced (64-bit).
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HF_SlowHand
Power User

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Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:09 am
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

before I pull the trigger, sanity check guys:



CASE> Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case


POWER SUPPLY>Rosewill Xtreme Series RX850-S-B 850W Continuous @40°C ,80 PLUS Certified, ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V v2.91, SLI Ready
CrossFire ...


CPU> Intel Core i7-875K Lynnfield 2.93GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Unlocked Desktop Processor



MOBO> ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel



THERMAL PASTE> ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound



CPU COOLER> COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ...
(Still not sure about this one... maybe nh-c14 or mugen-2?)


VIDEO / GRAPHICS> ASUS ENGTX460 DirectCU/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (still not sure - may hold off and use my ole 8800OC until I can lay down half a grand for Fleds recommendation...)


MEMORY/RAM> G.SKILL PI 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL6D-4GBPI
(This I struggle with more than anything... 4gb or 6? 8gb? LAT6? 7? 8?, OC or not? DDR3-1600? DDR3-2200?)....


OS> Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM (Suggestions?)



SSD> Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
(Can I dedicate an SSD for FS9 and FSX only?)


HDD> SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3R HE103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive


this gets me out of the store at about $1300...

thanks!
Slow

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Shades
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Posts: 6453
Location: 3rd Branch up, 'Ye Olde Oak', Green Wood.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Don't struggle too much with your RAM.., if your application's 32-bit don't get more than 4Gb.
If it's 64-bit, get as much as you can.
CL rating looks good.
Remember that when you overclock it, you will be adjusting RAM timings/voltages.
If you add more later, you will have to go through it all over again for the new total.

I don't know the CoolerMaster fan but, having experience of their cases, I would think it will be of similar credibility.
Have a look at my fan, which is related to the one you were thinking of but has two 120mm fans instead of having one of those tagged onto a 140mm one. They are tricky to fit, if you got fat fingers (COUslowwwwwGH!), but man! they're quiet and super effective.

I know nothing of these SSD's to which you refer.
Bush or Batman are the folks to ask about dem.

Regarding the subject line of your last post; I did check. It's still missing!
Razz

_________________
Skwerl's place.

Com-Central's cutest, fluffiest, twitchiest, tail.
CPU > Intel i9-9900k (o/c 4.9GHz); COOLING > BeQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4;
MOBO > ASUS PRIME Z390-A; RAM > 2x32GB Corsair LPX 2666MHz;
GPU > Gigabyte GEFORCE GTX650Ti PCI-e 3.0 2Gb GDDR5;
AUDIO > Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (plus - Universal Audio UAD2 Quad Custom accelerator);
HDD > 3x1TB+ M.2. SSDs; LCD > DELL - S2419HGF (1920x1080);
PSU > 650W be quiet Straight Power 11 - 80+ Gold;
CASE > BeQuiet! SILENT BASE 601; OS > Windows 10 Home Advanced (64-bit).
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HF_SlowHand
Power User

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Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

whelp, off to a great start... just picked up the cpu - an I7-875K for under $270... a steal!

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Shadow_Bshwackr
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Posts: 6988
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:54 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

SSD's are fast with no mechanical parts to slow them down. The 'spin up' time of SSD's are non-existent which makes them very fast and ff you've used USB thumb drives or memory storage cards, you've used SSD Technology and this is how the manufacturers get an incredible amount of storage on tiny space. At the moment, they're a bit pricey, but IMO, the performance is worth the extra cost and as we've all seen from past experience, the prices will drop as soon as the drives break heavy into the main stream of computers. Make no mistake, SSD's are the future of computer HD's.

Let us know how you like your new setup Slow...
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Kitform
Bar Maid

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Posts: 2011
Location: Cleveland. UK.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

IMHO, don't slow the system down with on board audio, get a dedicated card for it.
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HF_SlowHand
Power User

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Posts: 767
Location: Meeechigan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

roger, sound card - - any recommendation (gaming use mostly)

Also, now after pulling the trigger on an LGA 1156 platform mobo/cpu I find there is a bottleneck when using 6gb/s SATA or USB 3.0 and the graphics (slows graphics to 8X from 16X) as they share PCI 2.0 lanes with the graphics card(s)... I have read some 'solutions' but wonder if I should proceed with a AUSU P7P55D Premium, P7P55D-E Pro or Gigabyte's P55a-Ud6 (or UD7) cards or just resell the new LGA1156 I7-875K so I can build on an LGA1366 CPU which doesnt have this problem?

(Bush, AMD alread had it figured out so they do not have a problem like intel cpu's/MOBOs)

Any help is appreciated as I am in over my head and about to go under LOL....


Article from Toms Hardware

Toms Hardware CPU Hierarchy Chart for gaming CPUs

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Shadow_Bshwackr
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Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:43 am
Post subject: Re: REALITY CHECK

Yep, I've been an Intel fan for many years but I have to admit AMD has some fine products now. In the past, AMD was...well...hard to live with, but not anymore... Wink
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