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Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Post subject: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45


An eclectic mixture!
Where did the Matilda come from? Russian stocks?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

The only other explanation would be German used Matildas. They used captured ones in North Africa - did the Germans press into service any Matildas captured from the BEF in 1940?

Neil
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

The British shipped nearly 1,100 of them to the Soviets in 1941 & 1942.

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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:41 am
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

The surprising bit is that it's there at all, the rest are PzIII & IV, Wespe, Turan, Zrini & is that an M15 lurking in the background? Also, it does appear to be camoflaged. Mind you, that photo of an AFV scrapyard in Vienna shows a Renault FT, so not unprecidented.
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VonForhud
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

The Russians had a few Matildas, but they were not used overextensively, because the Matilda had a tendency to "brew up" when hit, hence the nickname "Tommy Cooker". Some of the forces used to attack Budapest were Romanians, they had Pzr III and IVs maybe the Russians gave them some Matildas as well.
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Walter
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

I thought that "Tommy Cooker " was the nickname of the Sherman ?
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VonForhud
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

I think it was used on both vehicles, as both of them had a horrible tendency to catch fire.
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

I'm unaware of the "Queen of the Desert" having a reputation for excessive flammability!
The Sherman was also known as "The Ronson", as it "Lights first time, every time"
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Mircea87
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:44 am
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

- VonForhud
Some of the forces used to attack Budapest were Romanians, they had Pzr III and IVs maybe the Russians gave them some Matildas as well.


There were no Pz III tanks available to the Romanian Army in February 1945. Almost all of them were lost at Stalingrad and the last two tanks were lost in Transnistria in the spring of 1944. The Russians gave the Romanian Army some captured Pz IVs after King Michael's Coup to replace the losses sustained in Hungary, but that was all. Even the two divisions of "volunteers" (Horea, Closca si Crisan and Tudor Vladimirescu) were equipped after the war with captured German AFVs. My guess, those are Russian Matildas.
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JiriTintera
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

Dear Sirs,
in the battle for/in Budapest was also used another captured vehicles of 8. SS-Kavallerie-Division "Floran Geyer" and 22. SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division "Maria Theresia" - see the Russian books:

Ilia Moshchanskii, Mikhail Gromov: Shturm Budapeshta (Storming Budapest), pages 26 & IV, ISBN 5-94889-005-8





Mikhail Svirin, Olieg Baronov, Maksim Kolomiec, Dmitry Nedogonov: Boi u ozera Balaton (The Battle Near Lake Balaton), page 33, ISBN 5-85729-011-2

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Smashy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:27 am
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

- VonForhud
The Russians had a few Matildas, but they were not used overextensively, because the Matilda had a tendency to "brew up" when hit, hence the nickname "Tommy Cooker".


This is a ludicrous statement especially so as the Matilda had a diesel engine.

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JiriTintera
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:17 am
Post subject: Re: Captured AFVs, Budapest, February '45

From 11 October 1941 to August 1943 from Britain to the Soviet Union sent tanks to 1084 pieces Matilda Mk. II. The Russian ports reached 918 units. They were first used in combat in the 20th January 1942 at 14:00 pm at the village of Georgi. Soviet tankers discovered that Matilda have stronger armor than tanks KV and ride deep snow they do not make trouble.

If I know, in July 1943 the Soviet Army used a few dozen tanks Matilda. Military derogatory nickname is not known.

In Russian museums:

Tank Museum of Kubinka a complete Matilda CS.


Victory Park in Poklonnaya Gora (Poklonnaya Hill) is an incomplete (tower is a dummy).


Resources
Tankomaster - journal, a supplement to the Tekhnika-molodezhi, Volume 1999, number 6, pages 30-41.
armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WW...atilda.php
dic.academic.ru/dic.ns...0%B4%D0%B0
www.fortunecity.com/me...rmors.html
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