±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 606
Total: 606
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Statistics
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: CPGlang
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Member Screenshots
71: Home
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Downloads
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Downloads
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: News
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Member Screenshots
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Member Screenshots
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: Home
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: News
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Photo Gallery
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Your Account
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Member Screenshots
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: CPGlang
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Contact
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Photo Gallery
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Your Account
244: Community Forums
245: Downloads
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Member Screenshots
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: News Archive
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Home
281: News
282: Community Forums
283: Downloads
284: Community Forums
285: CPGlang
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Your Account
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Member Screenshots
320: Your Account
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: News
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: News
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Your Account
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: News Archive
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Photo Gallery
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Your Account
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Your Account
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: CPGlang
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Member Screenshots
405: Photo Gallery
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Downloads
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Home
434: Downloads
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: News Archive
449: Home
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Member Screenshots
460: Home
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Photo Gallery
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: News
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Member Screenshots
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Photo Gallery
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Home
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: Photo Gallery
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Photo Gallery
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Downloads
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: News
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Your Account
533: Home
534: Home
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Member Screenshots
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Statistics
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Community Forums
570: CPGlang
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Member Screenshots
575: Community Forums
576: Downloads
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Downloads
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: News Archive
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Downloads
602: Home
603: Downloads
604: Community Forums
605: News Archive
606: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
MAP (Military Assistance Program)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:14 am
Post subject: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have done some research at the National Archives on Sherman based exports from MAP (Military Assistance Program). It is by no means complete and leaves a lot of questions since it does not break down what type of Sherman's were exported other than TNKMEM4 or M4A3. I assume most of the TNKMEM4 were probably M4A1 76mm. It also doesn't list M32 which might be included in the TNKMEN4.
I have not yet found any exports prior to 1963. There are some surprises like Indochina (Vietnam) and Tunisia getting M74 ARV's

Country Year Amount

M4 Sherman

Belgium 1963 85
Portugal 1963 19
Denmark 1963 8
France 1963 1484
Indochina 1963 2
Iran 1963 110
Italy 1963 28
Netherlands 1963 98
Turkey 1963 3
Undefined Code 1963 599


M74

Austria 1963 2
Belgium 1963 165
Brazil 1963 3
Chile 1963 3
Denmark 1963 1
France 1963 257
Germany 1963 156
Greece 1963 28
Indochina 1963 5
Indonesia 1963 2
Iran 1963 43
Iraq 1963 1
Italy 1963 118
Japan 1963 15
Libya 1963 1
Netherlands 1963 20
Pakistan 1963 35
Portugal 1963 13
S. Korea 1963 15
Spain 1963 24
Taiwan 1963 7
Tunisia 1963 4
Turkey 1963 168
Turkey 1965 51
Uruguay 1963 1
Back to top
View user's profile
Tichenor
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

These seems very strange to me as by 1963 Belgian Shermans where already obsolete and replaced by M47's. M74 could be correct they where used until the 80's.

Michel

_________________
www.afvregister.org
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

Your information is not correct concerning the dates and numbers.

There is a article written by Hanno Spoelstra about the Sherman tanks in service with the Dutch army.

2 batches where supplied under de MDAP to the Netherlands.
38 Shermans version M4A1 and a batch of 50 M4A1E9, all 75mm

By 1958 all Shermans tanks had been replaced by the British Centurion.

Concerning the recovery versions, I could find no data.
However by by 1968 the Centurion tanks where replaced by the Leopard 1.
So very likely that most, perhaps even all, Sherman recovery variants by then where replaced by the recovery variant of the Leopard 1

MichelK

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

it seems curious to me too, as the website "charsfrancais.net" mentions that the Sherman was used in France until 1965. The M4A4Ts were converted from M4A4s in 1952-1953. Note that the AMX-13 light tank was developed in 1953, and the AMX-30 in 1965, so there was no need of Sherman tanks in 1963 in France.

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.


The Dutch army after the war would not have stripped new tanks for spares.
Direct after the war about 250 Shermans where salvaged/rescued from scrapyard stocks of the Commonwealth forces and these where in a bad condition.

So there was no need for target range tanks also. because enough scrap standing around. Mr. Green

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

The other possibility is that these were giving to the Netherlands to be transferred to another country I.e. Israel
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...141,217436

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...090,209505
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I've come across some of these MDAP records and they should be used with considerable caution, as some list what is intended to be delivered, others what is delivered and they are not particularily precise when it comes to the types of vehicles.

Danmark got 8 Sherman M4A3E4 and one M32B1 in 1952, but it is not the first time I've seen the latter listed under M74. In fact, M74 figures in the documents regarding planned deliveries, but apparently you got what was available in terms of recovery vehicles.

I always try to confirm the delivery data in the MDAP records with data from Danish Army Archives to see what was actually delivered.

With regards to the date, my guess is that the document lists what have been delivered up to 1963 rather than what was delivered in 1963
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

- mikek92888
I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.


IIRC there was some change in the military aid program in the early 1960ies when the name changes from Mutual Defense Assistance Program (MDAP) to Military Aid (or assistance?) Program (MAP).
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have been studying the figures of Sherman supplied to the Dutch ..... and still can't figure it out Neutral

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum